America at a Crossroads: The Legal, Social, and Ethical Future of Voting

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Coming up on this episode of the
Healthy, Wealthy, and Wise podcast.

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Well, let's see.

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Let's see here.

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Well, a couple of things, actually,
you were speaking about him being the

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evil one, being a convicted felon.

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He would be, if he were elected, he
would be prohibited from entering about

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38 different countries as a felon.

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Really?

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Okay.

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I didn't know that.

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Includes Canada, Japan,
Australia, New Zealand.

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In the UK just to name a few . He would
act, he would be prohibited from that.

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And those, one of those two
famous papers that failed to

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endorse either candidate, right?

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Them broke the Watergate scandal.

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Yes, they did.

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Yes.

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Welcome to the Healthy, wealthy
and Wise Podcast, a podcast that

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provides actionable information
and tools you can use to live a

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more healthy, wealthy, and well.

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This is the Special Brothers
in Law edition featuring Dr.

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William T.

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Chonka, MD, and attorney Bernie Brown,
a former Los Angeles City prosecutor.

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Let's join the conversation.

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Yes,

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but, you know, it's amazing because the
name calling, the bullying, it's gotten

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to a point where it's being rewarded.

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And being accepted by so many
people, the vulgarity is just, it's

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horrible.

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I agree.

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And it's coming from one main source.

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You know, people are following the
leaders coming from one main source.

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But one of the things I find
encouraging, and I didn't think I

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would see, is the large number of
staunch Republicans who are standing

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up, members of the military who are
standing up, And saying this is wrong.

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Um, and even though we're going
to put country over party, put

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country over party, that this is
not a Democrat or Republican issue.

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And I've been both in my lifetime.

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I've been in the Republican party.

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I've been in the Democratic party and,
but saying this is something different.

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This is, this is something
we haven't seen before.

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Yes.

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And I think it is honorable that Liz
Cheney and even her dad Well, I have

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not been a fan of for a number of
years because of the previous wars and

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stuff, but even he stood up and said,
no, even, you know, this is wrong.

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Yes.

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Uh, that's absolutely right.

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I'm so proud of these people
standing up for what's right.

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Yes.

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You know, it's not a, at some
point it gets to the point

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where it's not about party.

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It's not about winning.

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It's about just what is right.

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Exactly.

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I'm absolutely proud of these
people and I've said it before

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and I'll just say it again.

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I'm afraid of both consequences.

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I'm afraid that if Trump loses, he will.

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Insurrection.

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Certainly he will try to cause, you
know, like he did before he'll get people

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all riled up and there'll be violence.

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I think there is a strong
probability, probability that if

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he loses, there will be violence.

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No, go ahead.

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Good.

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On the other hand, I think if he
wins, I think inevitably You know he

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falls out with everybody over time.

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Oh yeah.

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And I just don't want to see that
day when he falls out with Putin

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and starts calling Putin names.

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Well see I worry less about that because
I think if he loses he will be in jail.

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There are a number of cases out
there that he's very selectively been

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able to use his attorneys to delay
and delay and certain people in the

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judiciary, who I won't name, but, but
who may or will be a little suspect.

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But the last time he created havoc was
when he was in power in, in Washington.

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He is not in power.

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He's trying to get back to where he was.

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And my point is, if he
loses, he won't get back.

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He won't give it.

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He will be a convicted felon.

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Uh, he won't be able to
vote in certain places.

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And I think his whole
power will be diminished.

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Now he's not going to go away completely.

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And the people who follow
him won't go away completely.

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But I, I'm not concerned that it's going
to be anything near what January 6th was.

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I'm hoping you're right.

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You are a brilliant man.

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So I'm hoping you're right.

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I go back to this entirely different
subject, but I go back to the years

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when I was a young man and there were
tanks driving down the street and

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they were saying, burn baby, burn.

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I was on the radio.

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I remember that.

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The Watts riots.

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Yes.

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And it was like, man,
I couldn't believe it.

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Military tanks driving down the
street down Vermont Avenue, you

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know, burning up and looting and
fires and all of this and they're

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like, No, I don't believe this.

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Well, I can tell you I was in 1968.

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I was in college.

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I was a junior in college.

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And believe it or not, I had been elected
to student council president elect.

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In 1968, and this was April of 1968.

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And I never forget, you know, that was
an assassination that had occurred.

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And that, you know, there were rides
everywhere, all over the place.

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And, and the, the Dean of students came to
me and said, you know, we, we've got these

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tanks, then we had tanks on our campus
on a car, cause they were concerned about

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the colleges, particularly the HBCUs.

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And he said, the Dean of students
said, you are the city as a

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student council president.

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And I said, no, sir, I'm sitting
a student council president elect.

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And he said, well, the president
has just stepped down because he

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says he's a senior and he's done.

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That's exactly what he said.

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But I learned, I can tell you,
I learned some very important

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lessons that in the midst of all
that fear and anger and confusion.

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You can find common ground and basically
all they needed me to do was to go

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with the leadership of the university
downtown to the city in the deep

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south to meet with the representatives
of the city in the deep south to

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let them know that at my college we
weren't going to do anything crazy.

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And they needed to hear it
from a student representative.

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And I basically didn't say very
much, I just listened to the adults

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in the room talk or whatever.

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But my point is, it gave me hope.

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It gave me hope that no matter how
dark things look, you can find some

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people who can walk to the middle
of the room or the middle of the

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field and sit down and have a decent
conversation and come up with a solution.

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You are fantastic.

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Those people do exist.

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I'd vote for you

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any day.

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I'm not running for anything.

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You got my vote, buddy.

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I just always say like, like you,
I have kids and grandkids, so I'm

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gonna, I'm gonna turn all this
over to my kids and grandkids.

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I, I, you know,

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I'm at the end of my rope, but we'll see.

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And certainly we will, we will
have a conversation next month.

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Well, after November 5th, and we
can sort of see where, where things

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are and where the country is.

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Sounds great, man.

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Thank you for having me.

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It's been a wonderful conversation.

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Well, thank you as always for
coming and you're always so grateful

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and so kind to us to share your
very, very precious time with us.

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Before we let you go, Jesse, did
you have any questions for Attorney

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Brown before we let him go?

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Well, let's see.

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Let's see here.

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Well, a couple of things, actually.

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You were speaking about him being the
evil one, being a convicted felon.

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Um, he would be, if he were elected.

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He will be prohibited from entering
about 38 different countries as a felon.

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And this includes Canada, Japan,
Australia, New Zealand, and

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the UK, just to name a few.

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He will be prohibited from that.

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And those, one of those two famous Papers
that failed to endorse either candidate.

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Right.

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Broke the Watergate scandal.

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Yes, they did.

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Yes.

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And Woodward and Bernstein, but
particularly Woodward was very critical.

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Um, of that organization, but the theory
is that if one, if this person were to

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win, he would just make it all go away,
you know, he'd, he'd, he'd fire Jack Smith

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and he'd, he'd, he'd get rid of all that.

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Well, he can make the federal
cases go away, but not state.

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That's true.

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That's true.

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You're

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right.

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He can make a lot of it go
away, but not all of it.

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That's true.

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Some of the charges are
state related charges.

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Right, right.

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Would not go away.

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Right.

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Good point.

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Good point.

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Good point.

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Yes, it'll be interesting as I keep
saying, but it will be interesting.

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That would be great, wouldn't it?

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Like, Oh no, you can't come and hug me.

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But

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we're not allowing you Based on our rules

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Brother Bernie, did you ask did you
explain kind of what the original

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purpose of the Electoral College was?

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Well, it started off and it's still
one of the arguments that's made under

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modern day circumstances And that is
that it started off to protect The

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smaller states and there is a slightly
racial side to it because the South

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historically, you know, blacks were not
allowed to vote and we're not counted as

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part of the population or we're counted
as only three fifths of the population.

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So the South felt as though, Oh,
we're getting, we're getting kind of.

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The steep end of the deal here we
get because we are getting a true

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count for our true population.

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Well, it's kind of their own fault,
but in any event, so this was part of

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a compromise to a certain degree due to
create the electoral college to protect.

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the ability of states to independently
cast their votes and to be

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represented on a national level.

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It was felt at some point that if you had
a situation where it was totally majority

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rule that that would take away protections
and create a tyranny, shall we say, of,

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against the minorities, that, that the
majority could basically overwhelm and

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dominate the minorities, and so, it was
kind of all the reverse arguments, but the

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primary historical context was the, of the
creation, was to protect smaller states,

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and to protect their ability to be heard.

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The, as you know, the other side
of the argument is That you want

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to protect the overall population.

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And the president should not be committed
to any individual states, but should be

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committed on behalf of the individual
population of each individual person.

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And so, you know, the arguments,
they sway back and forth.

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But it primarily came from the idea
to protect the southern states.

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So that their voice would be heard.

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through an electoral college process.

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Well, along those lines, what are
your thoughts on the electoral college

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being a form of voter suppression,
especially in those Southern states?

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I don't, I don't see it as a, a form of.

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Suppression.

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I mean, it, it has urging the vote.

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Well, I think people are going to
go out there and vote and they, and

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they've been encouraged to vote.

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They're going to vote and they,
their votes will be counted.

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At least the votes that they vote for
the slate of their electors in each

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individual state because they're voting
actually for a slate of electors.

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And so their votes will be counted.

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In that regard.

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And so, uh, I'm not sure that
it's used to thwart the vote.

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It does, as I, as I referred
to tangentially earlier, it

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does to some degree distort it.

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And disproportionately represent the vote.

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That's the reason why we've had
a situation where a candidate

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who has won the popular vote, the
majority vote has actually lost

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the election

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through the electoral college
because it's the representation, the

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representation, I should say, is not
like one to one in the electoral college.

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In a smaller state, a candidate,
an elector, might represent

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a few thousand people.

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In a larger state, the
representative might represent

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tens of thousands of persons.

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That's one per tens of thousands versus
one per a few thousand, which means that

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that candidate Or electorate, I should
say, who represents the smaller state has

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disproportionately more representation.

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And that's what results in an election
base that's contrary to the popular vote.

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Like I said earlier, you could see a
situation where 11 states determine

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the actual election of presidency.

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But, you know what?

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You could see a situation where it's
the bottom of the ninth inning, there's

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two outs, the bases are loaded, and
the team that's, uh, that has two outs

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against it is about to lose the game.

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And then there's a grand slam
home run that saves the game.

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Actually, it's the bottom
of the 10th inning.

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It's never happened before.

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Well, it's got to be interesting.

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It's got to be interesting.

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I'm

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talking about the Dodgers and the Yankees.

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I'm not sure whether you
guys follow the basics.

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I got

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that one.

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I did not get that one.

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I said, okay.

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You see, I could hear like,
what is he talking about?

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I was like, oh, yeah.

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The point is, once in
history, something happens.

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Yes, yes, that's true,
but once in history,

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and people are having, we're
having record voting right now, you

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know, from Georgia and some of the
other places in the South, right?

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Yeah, you're right.

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Parting thought for me, thank
God for attorneys like attorney

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Bernie Brown and Mark Elias.

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That's it.

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Okay,

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well, thank you.

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Thank God for you and for Dr.

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Choctaw

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and for

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Kamala.

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So, Bernard, do you have any parting
comments for us as we let you go

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to enjoy the rest of your day?

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I will just quote from a
very famous former president.

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Keep hope alive.

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Good

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point.

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Good point.

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I completely agree with that.

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Thank you as always, sir, for
being so gracious with you.

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Very precious time.

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And, uh, please enjoy the rest of
your day and we'll, we'll be back

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in touch in about 30 days or so.

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See where things stand.

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Thank you for having me.

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And we await

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the results.

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Indeed.

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Indeed.

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Take care.

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All right.

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God bless you too.

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You've been listening to the healthy,
wealthy, and wise podcast, the special

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brothers in law edition, featuring Dr.

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00:16:27,114 --> 00:16:27,715
William T.

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Choctaw MD and attorney Bernie Brown,
a former Los Angeles city prosecutor.

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We value you as a listener and your views.

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00:16:38,055 --> 00:16:39,015
You can connect with.

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Or gentlemen@www.th wwp.com.

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00:16:44,575 --> 00:16:49,285
That's at www.thwwp.com.

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00:16:49,675 --> 00:16:52,915
Click on the contact link
and we'll respond to you.

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00:16:53,455 --> 00:16:57,775
While you are there, check out the
other past episodes, blogs, and books.

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00:16:58,195 --> 00:17:02,275
In the meantime, be the change
you want to see in the world.

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This is The Healthy, wealthy,
and Wise Podcast with Dr.

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00:17:06,114 --> 00:17:09,234
William t Choctaw, MD JD.

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A production of Changemakers
Communications, LLC.