Beyond the Ballot: How the Electoral College Shapes Our Democracy with Dr. William Choctaw and Attorney Bernie Brown

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Coming up on this episode
of the Healthy, Wealthy, and

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Wise podcast, the electoral
college decides who becomes

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president of the United States.

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When you vote for a candidate for
president of the United States, you are

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actually voting for a slate of electors.

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That represent the candidate that you
voted for now each state Has a designated

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number of electors Usually based on

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welcome to the healthy wealthy and
wise podcast a podcast that provides

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actionable information And tools you
can use to live a more healthy wealthy

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and wise life This is the special
brothers in law edition featuring.

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Dr William t.

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Choctaw md and attorney bernie
round a former law Well,

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ladies and gentlemen, we are absolutely
delighted to have our favorite attorney

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with us today, attorney Bernie Brown.

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And as we have been doing for the
last few months, we decided that

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this is the way we would educate
our listeners about the election.

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We, we.

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I decided to have a legal professor
to sort of come in and sort of sort

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of give us insights and direction and
clarity, if you will, about what's going

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on and, and what we need to know and.

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And to answer our important
questions, one of the things that

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we decided that we would talk about
today is the Electoral College.

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I think most of our listeners are
familiar with Attorney Brown, but just

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to, for those who may not be, in addition
to being a distinguished attorney in

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the past and prior to his retirement,
he was assistant district attorney.

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Is that correct?

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Assistant City Attorney,
yes sir, for the City of Los

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Angeles, for the City of Los Angeles.

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And one of the things that I like
about Attorney Brown's claim to fame

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is that he went to the same law school
as Vice President Kamala Harris, that

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distinguishes Hastings Law School,

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Hastings College of the Law, now
known as University of California Law.

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San Francisco.

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Okay.

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Thank you very much.

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Cause I, I wanted to make sure
that I got the right name in there.

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So that that's another reason why we are
sort of interested in sort of getting

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a peek inside of attorney Brown's brain
about these different important issues.

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And that adds to the relevance, if
you will, or a special treat for our

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listeners as we get legal advice.

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So we just about said, Brother Brown,
why don't you tell us what exactly

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is the Electoral College and why
is there so much interest in it?

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Thank you for having me.

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That's really a great question
and it's so topical with the

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presidential election coming up.

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Everybody's talking about the electoral
college and you know, the amazing

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thing is some people are criticizing
it saying it's It's outdated, and

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antiquated, and undemocratic, and
unfair, and forces majority rule,

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and it just goes on, and on, and on.

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And you know the amazing thing is,
most people, when they take polls,

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do not favor the electoral college.

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They want to get

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rid of it.

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Is that right?

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Okay.

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It

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has survived on, and on, and on,
and I'm here to tell you that I

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don't think it's going anywhere.

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Anytime soon,

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you're probably right.

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Well, the reason, in my opinion,
the reason why is not going anywhere

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soon is that if you get elected.

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Pursuant to the electoral college,

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right?

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Then you have no incentive to change
it And if you lose under the electoral

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college, you have no power to change

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Okay,

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so either way It's going to be around I
believe for a while It the interesting

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thing before I tell you what it is.

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Okay, interesting thing is what
would it require to change it?

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Yes, that's a good point.

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Okay.

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A constitutional amendment.

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It would require a two thirds vote of
Congress and a three fourths vote of

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all the states of the United States
and it's just not going to happen.

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That takes a lot.

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That takes a lot.

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Didn't something, wasn't that used
with, with women, had to do with

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the vote or something where all
the states or a certain percentage

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of states had to approve it.

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Maybe I'm thinking about something else.

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And the electoral college is found
in the constitution, the 12th

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amendment, found in article two,
section one of the constitution.

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And the constitution requires that if
you basically want to change it, you

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gotta have a vote of Congress and a
vote of the states to get an amendment.

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That's difficult.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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So, I mean, there are some
ways that states are going

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about trying to get around it.

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Trying to circumvent it, but that's
probably a long story maybe for

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another day and another time right
now It's not happening and the

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interesting thing you asked the
question What is the electoral college?

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Yes,

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and You know, reporters have gone
out in public and asked people that

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very question and a mass majority of
people cannot explain it when they ask

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them, what is the electoral college?

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They just kind of look like, Oh, well,
and so it's really quite interesting.

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The electoral college decides.

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Who becomes president of the United
States when you vote for a candidate

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for president of the United States,
you are actually voting for a

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slate of electors that represent
the candidate that you voted for.

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Now each state has a designated
number of electors usually based

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on the population in that state.

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Okay.

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Oh, are you with me now?

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Like I said, it's based
on the 12th amendment.

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And what it is, and we're going to
look at it, an analysis of California

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in just a moment as an example.

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Each state gets two U.

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S.

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Senators, and each state gets
a designated number of members.

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In the house of reveries, I'm sorry,
in the house of representatives

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based on the number of U.

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S.

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congressional districts that have
been allocated to that state.

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Okay.

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Now that let me break that down.

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Okay.

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Two U.

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S.

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representatives assigned to each
state and each state based on its

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population gets a designated number
of congressional representatives.

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Right.

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Let me give you an example.

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The state of California.

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Yes.

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Assign two senators and 53 representatives
in the house of representatives.

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You

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kind of find the largest state, right?

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Largest state in the

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state.

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You combine that 53 with the two
senators and you get 55 electors

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representing the The state of California.

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So the same formula is
applied to every state.

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Every state must that.

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Now here's the interesting
little small tidbit though.

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Okay.

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Every state must get at least three votes.

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No matter how small interesting so
some very small stage very stage

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with very low populations get a
Disproportionate number of votes now.

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Why is that?

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Okay.

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Well, it's written up in the
Constitution It says that each state

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must have a certain minimum number
of of electoral college votes.

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Okay.

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Very small states wind up
disproportionately represented.

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Now the interesting thing.

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Here's the interesting point.

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Okay,

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it's 48 of the states except for Maine
and Nebraska are winner take all states

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winner take all Now, what does that mean?

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Well, let's just use California once
again as an example Let's say, when you

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see, when you go to vote, you actually,
like I mentioned earlier, you're

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going to vote for a slate of electors.

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Right.

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Now, the Republicans have a slate
and the Democrats have a slate.

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If the Democratic candidate gets the
majority of the votes, then their

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slate gets represented, gets counted.

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The losing slate does not count.

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Represent the state.

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Okay.

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And

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they do not get counted.

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I'll explain a little further
more, a little better later.

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But basically it's almost like a winner.

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It is what they call it.

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Winner take all.

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Okay.

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So, so California, let's say 48
percent of the population votes Kamala.

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Okay.

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And 52% Vote for Trump.

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Okay.

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Then Trump would win California
and take all of its electors.

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Got it.

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That's why it's important to win in
every state, uh, to win your state.

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Right.

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Because the losing candidate,
their candidates, their

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electors do not get counted.

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But you see what eventually happens
is on January 5th, the electors go

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to Congress and cast their vote.

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Um, on behalf of the candidates that
have won in their state, at least

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they're supposed to cast their vote.

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Well, I was going to, are they
obligated to do that or are

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there loopholes there too?

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There's a new Supreme Court case that
says, if your state has a law that

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requires you to vote for the winning
candidate, then you must cast that vote

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on behalf of the winning candidate.

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Okay.

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So most states have that.

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Law, but, and, and generally it hasn't
been an issue what's become, as you know,

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at the last election, as we all know, at
the last election, what became an issue

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is the electors from each state went
to Congress and they cast their vote.

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And then there was a The
existing president is, Oh,

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no, there, this isn't right.

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There, there, there's fraud.

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The election has been stolen.

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Urge Congress not to certify
the votes from the various

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states and then tried to urge.

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The vice president not
to certify the vote.

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Now, that didn't happen.

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Fortunately, the people in power,
shall we say, follow the constitution,

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follow the law and refused to,
well, how would you say it?

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Dr.

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Choctaw.

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Uh, to upset the, uh, subvert
the system of democracy.

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Let me ask you a question on that.

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Now, members of Congress are also
running for re election, correct?

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Particularly in the House.

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Yes, but they are, they
are by direct vote.

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Okay, okay.

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So, there is a vote of the population.

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Whoever wins the majority of the
vote, Wednesday, their election.

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Who decides the

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presidential election?

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Is that the new Congress
or the old Congress?

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Well, it's the existing
Congress of Congress.

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Doesn't decide technically Congress
is only supposed to certify

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the votes that are reported to
them from the various states.

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They're supposed to exert
assert independent authority.

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Okay.

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Or to try to, or to circumvent
or to overcome the process.

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So when states come forward and
you'll be hearing that, you actually

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hear it on election night on a
November, on November 5th, when all

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the states are casting their votes.

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So we'll know a lot sooner than
January the 5th, but on, on November.

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The fifth, you will hear the state there.

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The state of California cast, its 55
votes for president, for Kamala Harris,

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Kamala Harris as the next president of
the, you know, United States of America.

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And they'll be going through each state
over, uh, each day, one by one by one.

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Okay?

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And, and, and so that should decide it.

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And here's an interesting little fact.

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Okay.

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Interesting.

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Did you know that the 11 biggest
most populated states could

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actually control the election?

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Can it win from just the 11?

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Largest states.

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I mean, these are the battleground
states we hear about, or these

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are not the battleground states.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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States with the most members
of the electoral college.

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Say this is California has 55 electoral
electors is what they're called.

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Florida has 30, New York has 28, Texas
has 40 Ohio has 17, North Carolina

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has 16, Illinois has 17, I'm sorry,
Pennsylvania has 19, Georgia has 16,

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Michigan has 15, and New Jersey has 14.

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When you put those all together,
you get more than 270 votes.

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That's a majority of all of the
electorates for all of the states.

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That would win the election.

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But when they talk

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about battleground states, they
talk about like five or six states.

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They don't talk about that many.

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Yes.

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The thing about the battleground states
is that they're close, they're so close.

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And so nobody, the question becomes
who's going to win those states

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and those become more critical.

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You see, California is
a foregone conclusion.

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Right.

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00:14:51,969 --> 00:14:55,999
It's gone a Democrat for
years and like Texas has gone

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Republican, right?

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00:14:58,259 --> 00:14:59,819
Texas is going Republican.

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00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,269
So there's certain states that are
not considered battleground states.

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They know pretty much they have
a history of going a certain way.

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All of the polls show they're
going to go a certain way.

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00:15:11,339 --> 00:15:14,280
So there's not a question of
which way they're going to vote.

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But those swing states are the ones that
are very close where they're saying,

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well, we don't really know who's going
to win the swing states this year, 2024,

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00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:30,949
Arizona, 11 electoral votes, Georgia, 16,
Michigan, 15, Nevada, six, North Carolina,

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00:15:30,959 --> 00:15:34,869
six, Pennsylvania, 19, Wisconsin, 10.

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That's 93.

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00:15:37,875 --> 00:15:45,215
93 electoral votes in, in, in,
I'm sorry, seven swing states.

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Got it.

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It can

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change the election.

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So, you know, it gets, this
stuff is, is really exciting.

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You know, I listen to some people
and they say, Well, I can't,

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I can't listen to it anymore.

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And

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00:16:01,740 --> 00:16:05,470
then I hear people on both sides
saying, well, if the other Canada

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wins, I'm leaving the country.

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I hear people on the other
side saying, okay, goodbye.

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You've been listening to the healthy,
wealthy and wise podcast, the special

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00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,670
brothers in law edition featuring Dr.

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00:16:20,670 --> 00:16:21,270
William T.

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00:16:21,270 --> 00:16:26,790
Chonkdorf, MD and attorney Bernie Brown,
a former Los Angeles city prosecutor.

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We value you as a listener and your views.

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00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,230
So you can connect with
either gentleman at www.

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00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:34,820
thwwp.

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00:16:34,820 --> 00:16:36,352
com.

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That's at www.

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thwwp.

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00:16:42,479 --> 00:16:42,859
com.

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00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:47,900
Click on the contact link and we'll
respond to you while you're there.

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Check out the other past episodes,
blogs, and books in the meantime, be

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the change you want to see in the world.

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This is the healthy.

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Wealthy and Wise Podcast with Dr.

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William T.

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Choctaw, M.

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D., J.

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D.

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