Healthy Skepticism: Can We Trust Polls in 2024?" With Bernie Brown

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Coming up on this episode of the
Healthy, Wealthy and Wise podcast.

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In terms of the press, I think
the press is great, but my bone to

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pick with them is they like drama.

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They like controversy.

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They, it's like a horror movie.

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You know, why don't people
go to horror movies?

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You know, they like being scared
and made uncomfortable, whatever,

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whatever, but when the movie's over,
they say, well, it was just a movie

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and I don't have to worry about it.

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My point is that, that our media
is not always out to, um, um, you

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know, get the word of the person.

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They, they, they, a lot of it is theater.

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I mean, they do it on
purpose because they,

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they know what's going to happen.

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Welcome to the Healthy, Wealthy,
and Wise podcast with Dr.

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William T.

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Choctaw, MD, JD.

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This podcast will inform, educate,
and motivate you to live a more

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healthy, wealthy, and wise life.

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It's powered by the over 50 years
of medical experience of this Yale

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University Medical School trained
surgeon, who also received his Juris

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Doctorate from Western State Law School.

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He has executive experience as a
former mayor of Walnut, California,

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as a chairman of the non profit
serving Arms and as president of

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Choctaw Medical Group Incorporated,
you've got questions or concerns.

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He's got answers for both.

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So let's listen in on an
interview already in progress.

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Well welcome, um, uh,
attorney Bernie Brown.

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We're absolutely delighted to have
you with us on this beautiful Saturday

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in, uh, the great state of California.

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Um, and as many of you know, who've
been following the health, wealth

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and wise podcast, um, uh, Barney is
our legal scholar among other things.

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And so we, we frequently
bring him in to educate us.

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Um, and, um, Initially with this
podcast, we decided, we had thought

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that we weren't going to really get too
much involved with what was going on

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and politically, but I think this is
such an extraordinary year politically.

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I think being a leadership type of
masterclass, we would be remiss in

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our duty to our listening public.

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Not to at least, um, I have some experts
like, like, uh, brother Brown come in

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and, and discuss stuff with us and, and at
least go over some of the basic types of

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things that are happening in our country.

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So, so welcome again, Bernie, uh, to
the healthy, wealthy, and wise podcast.

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Well, thank you.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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You know, whenever I come here with
you, I feel healthy, wealthy, and wise.

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I feel blessed.

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Thank you so much.

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I guess today we're going to talk
about the threat to democracy.

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Yes, man.

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You know, when I was a young man,
I thought democracy was secure.

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Yeah.

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I looked at, at, at society, you
know, way back in the sixties and

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the fifties, you know, there were
injustices, but I looked at our country.

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And I felt like, well, there's one thing
we can rely on and that's democracy.

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Exactly.

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Majority rule.

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But guess what?

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I believe there is a serious
threat to democracy on

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this.

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Especially if Trump gets.

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Uh, if he loses, loses the election,

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understood, understood and see,
and I think quite honestly,

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there's a threat only if he wins.

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And that's it.

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Yeah.

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Because I think if he
loses, it won't matter.

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It really won't matter.

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Yeah.

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You can have a few insurrectionists.

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Okay.

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But we're, we're, we're a tough country
and we've had demonstrate demonstrators

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for years for different reasons.

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And that, that does not bother me at all.

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Well, I'm just so concerned by
the fact that his, his followers

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have blind allegiance to him.

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That's

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true.

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I, I, I would agree with that.

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I would agree with that.

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But I think one of the things that
individuals who become very concerned

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about what happened in 2020, um, um,
um, uh, don't mention a lot of times

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is that he was president in 2020.

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You know, when, when all those
folks were invited to the Capitol

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and to demonstrate whatever he was
president, then he's not president now.

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And if he does not become
president, Joe Biden is president.

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And I just don't think, um, that
these, uh, most powerful men in

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the world, at least at that time,
um, uh, would allow anything to

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threaten our democracy the way it, it
potentially was about to do in 2020.

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I don't know.

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Oh, I love your faith, faith
in man, faith in God, it's

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all beautiful.

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But as an attorney, you can say,
you're looking at the real world.

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I don't know, it just, when I look at
how they are so committed to him, you

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know, they, they stormed the Capitol.

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And, and, and their, his
followers are willing to go to

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jail for him to go to prison.

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And most of them are.

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Most of them have gone to jail.

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Yes.

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But the interesting thing
is, he didn't go to jail.

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Well, that, that's a different issue,
but we're, we're working through that.

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Yeah.

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We're working on that.

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So, uh, it's kind of interesting because.

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These, I don't know whether you've
seen on YouTube, there have been these,

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uh, interviews on YouTube where these
reporters go to, uh, Trump rallies

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and MAGA meetings, and they ask
his supporters, you know, questions

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and they'll say things to them.

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And one of the things that they've done
about three or four different times.

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Is they will say to a a, a Trump
supporter, they'll pull 'em over

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to the side and say, oh, did you
hear, uh, president Biden has just

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been convicted of like 15 counsel
fraud and filing false documents?

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And, and also he got a
judgment against him.

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It's a multimillion dollar judgment
against him for defamation.

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And these people will say, they will,
they will say, well, yes, he's corrupt.

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We've always known he's corrupt,
he's terrible, the man, he, he,

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he's a fraud and he's terrible.

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He's crooked.

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And they'll go on and on and on.

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And then the reporter will say,
Oh, I'm sorry, I made a mistake.

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Those convictions and got
the judgment against him.

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And do you know what those every in
every case, do you know what they do?

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They immediately start saying, Oh, well,
that's, that couldn't have happened.

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The system is, is, is
the system is rigged.

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It's a fraud against him.

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And they immediately started
denying that it could be true.

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Well, you know, I, I, I have no doubt that
there is a group of people who, who will

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believe anything that the ex president
says, um, but what I, what I do is I, I

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put it, what I call put it in perspective.

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There are 307, roughly 370
million people in this country.

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The ex president has never
won the popular vote.

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The one time he was fortunate
enough to win the presidency

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was with the Electoral College.

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He's never won the popular vote.

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My point being the majority of
Americans in this country are

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not those small minority true
believers, et cetera, et cetera.

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And I think, and the, in terms of the
press, I think the press is great, but my

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bone to pick with them is they like drama.

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They like controversy.

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They, it's like a horror movie.

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You know, why do people
go to horror movies?

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You know, they like being scared
and made uncomfortable or whatever,

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but when the movie's over, they
say, well, it was just a movie and

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I don't have to worry about it.

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My point is that, that our media
It's not always out to, um, um, you

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know, get the word of the person.

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They, they, they, a lot of it is theater.

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I mean, they do it on purpose because
they, they know what's going to happen.

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You don't, you don't see them going
to Biden's group and saying that.

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No, they like for people who say crazy
stuff, you know, because then they put

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it on the web or they put it on the
media, whatever, whatever, whatever.

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And so I think I, I just
put it all in perspective.

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I don't think that's the majority at all.

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Yeah, crazy stuff gets the headlines.

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Yes,

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absolutely.

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If it bleeds, it leads.

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Right.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And, and, and, and the media,
they, they pray on that.

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Yes.

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It's interesting because we've, we've come
to a place in history, the history of our

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nation at a time when both sides believe
that there is a threat to democracy.

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The Republicans believe that
there is a threat to democracy,

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and the Democrats believe that
there is a threat to democracy.

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I mean, they've done these
surveys, Republicans believe

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that the Democrats are cheating.

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That they're allowing non citizens
to vote in the elections, and illegal

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aliens to vote in the elections.

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That they're cheating with
regard to the vote counts.

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Who taught illegal aliens how to vote?

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I find that fascinating.

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But anyway, I'm sorry.

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Go on.

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Yeah, I mean, they think that
they're miscounting the votes.

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I mean Trump is, is, is propagating.

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He's promulgating.

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He's, he's sending all these
messages out and they're eating

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it all up and they're believing.

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And so they believe they
still, a mass majority of

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Republicans still believe that.

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The 2020

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election was stolen from Trump.

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I think, I think that's the mass
majority of MAGA Republicans.

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I don't think that's what the
majority of Republicans believe.

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I used to be a Republican.

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I used to call myself a Colin
Powell Republican, you know, a W.

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H.

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Bush Republican.

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So my point is a lot of my
Republican friends are not MAGA.

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And I would argue that the, that
MAGA is probably a minority.

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of the overall Republican Party.

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The problem is that minority keeps silent.

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You know, they don't say anything.

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They don't, they don't, they won't talk
to the reporter who comes to talk to them.

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So, so you don't know who they are, but
I don't think the MAGA Republican is

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the majority of the Republican Party.

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Yeah.

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It's interesting.

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And that, you know,
you make a strong case.

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The interesting point is that
With regard to the polls, the

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national polls still show that
this man who is a convicted felon

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is

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still leading in many of the polls.

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Yes.

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Still has the great power.

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Potential to be elected as president.

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But it's important to keep in
mind that that lead is decreasing.

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I follow the polls daily.

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Uh, and that lead is decreasing.

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Uh, Kamala Harris has only been
the nominee for about a month.

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Uh, the, that, that other guy
has been around for years.

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So my point is she's frozen fast.

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She's frozen fast.

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And No, go ahead.

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No, go ahead.

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Well, it's an interesting comparison
because at some point Hillary Clinton

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was ahead and everybody thought
she was going to, I mean, it was

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like a four foregone conclusion.

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Hillary Clinton is going to win this race.

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And we're all sitting there thinking
that this, it was a done deal.

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And then boom, he
slipped right through it.

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And a

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couple of things have no, you,
you bring up excellent point.

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A couple of things happening
and why Hillary is not Kamala.

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And one of those things is, I think that
there may have been some, uh, Um, um,

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overestimation about Hillary, you know,
she's, she's the secretary of state

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and, uh, the ex president's, uh, wife
and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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Um, and I think it may very well have been
that the Democrats sort of slept a little

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bit on that one, you know, because, you
know, believe in the polls or whatever.

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My point being that won't happen
in 2024 because it happened.

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20 years ago.

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I mean, um, you know, four
years ago, no, eight years ago.

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Uh, so my point is, I think, I think
the Democrats have learned their

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lesson about that, you know, with,
with, with, with the candidate.

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I certainly hope you're right.

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I certainly hope you're right.

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The thing that scares me is these
people, uh, pardon me for using this

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term who are hiding in the closet.

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I think there are a lot of people out
there, cause I've spoken to them, don't

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believe that a woman should be president.

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I agree with that.

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They'll never say it verbally, I mean
openly, they will just come out and say,

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I don't think a woman should be president.

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I agree.

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There are a lot of people out there
who don't want a black person, who

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don't want another black president.

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I agree.

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Or the first black president.

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Yes,

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but he won anyway.

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I agree.

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He won anyway.

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And I agree with you.

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I, I think that one of the lessons I
think that's learned this year with the

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Democrats as compared to when Hillary
won, uh, ran was they believed the polls

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that showed her ahead in these places.

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And when the election was done, they
found out that those polls were off

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because a lot to, to expand your point,
a lot of people when questioned by

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the polls won't tell them the truth.

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They don't want to say
that they support Trump.

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They'll say they don't
or they'll say nothing.

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So I think that there's, you have to add
in an undercount with, with his numbers.

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I definitely agree with that.

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And I think that's the lesson that, uh,
the Democrats have learned this time.

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And that's why when you hear
Harris or Walz or any of them

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say, they say, ignore the polls.

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Ignore the polls.

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We got to work real, real hard,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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Because I think they're
trying to learn that lesson.

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Second thing very quickly is that I think
Russia was involved, you know, toward

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the latter part of the campaign, in
addition to other types of disinformation.

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And I think we as a country probably
were not as sophisticated as we are now

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with factoring in the disinformation.

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Think about this guy Becker, or Pecker,
I think is his name, uh, you know, Oh,

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who's, who's the ex president's buddy.

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And his job along with the
ex president was putting out

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false stuff on a weekly basis.

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And you know, and you may not always
believe it, but you, if you see a

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hundred things, you may say, well, well,
maybe, maybe there's some truth to that.

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So, so those things that were done
with Hillary, unfortunately, uh, people

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know now and can protect against them.

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Thank you.

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Yes.

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Well, you know, I'm always shocked
at how loyal people are to Trump, but

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part of it is because he knows how to.

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Press the right buttons and yes, and and
and like he he plays the subconscious

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Yes, what do you see you say?

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Well, what do I mean by that?

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well, I saw recently came out with
an ad and he was talking about how

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whether Kamala Kamala could stand up
to Putin and whether you can stand,

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whether she could stand up to China
and North Korea, those leaders there.

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And the, the underlying, uh, message.

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That she's a woman.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I think misogyny will always be with
us after Kamala is president, just like

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racism has always been with us and is
with us after Obama became president.

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My point, very simple, is some of
those folks will never change, and

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that's okay, but they're in such a
small minority that it doesn't matter.

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We will pray for them and move on.

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Thank you for listening to the Healthy,
wealthy, and Wise Podcast with Dr.

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00:16:42,944 --> 00:16:45,465
William t Choctaw, MD jd.

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00:16:58,245 --> 00:17:03,615
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00:17:04,235 --> 00:17:07,245
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00:17:14,845 --> 00:17:16,734
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00:17:16,734 --> 00:17:17,294
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