Know Your Rights: Dealing with the Police in Public

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay.

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Good morning.

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Uh, this is Dr.

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William T.

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Choctaw, and I will be your host today
to the Healthy, Wealth, and Wise podcast.

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Um, we always like to go over our beliefs.

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We believe life is about being
of service to other people.

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We believe knowledge is power.

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We believe leaders can change the world.

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And so, in essence, what we want
to do for you, our audience, is

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to empower you with knowledge to
make the world a better place.

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Uh, to that end, uh, we have
one of our very, very special

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guests, uh, for you today.

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Uh, he's a friend, he's been with you
before, so you will, you may remember

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him when he, when I introduce him.

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Uh, but we, we think you're
in for a treat today.

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Um, and, uh, he's going to
educate us about some things that

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we need to be educated about.

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The name of our podcast is
Healthy, Wealth, and Wise.

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Uh, and part of that healthy is
Mental, physical, and spiritual.

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Uh, decreasing anxiety, and one of
the ways to decrease anxiety is to

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have more knowledge, is to understand
the environment, to understand

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circumstances that may arise, um,
and how to manage those circumstances

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so they aren't surprises to you.

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And one of the things that I'll guess,
uh, my friend, Attorney Bernie Brown,

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is going to do is that he's going to go
over some legal issues with us, and most

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of us, unless you've gone to law school,
most probably have not gone to law school.

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You get very confused with legal
issues, sort of like medical issues,

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you know, unless you're sick,
you don't really think about it.

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Well, we want to make sure that you
are mentally prepared and the wise part

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of healthy, wealthy and wise, that you
have that knowledge at a certain level.

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So welcome Bernie.

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Hi.

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Hello there.

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How's it going?

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It's going very, very well.

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We're delighted to have you.

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Uh, we're going to have you get real
close to your microphone so we can make

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sure that we, we, we hear you very well.

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And, uh, we'll, we'll just
sort of turn it over to you.

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Bernie Brown, Esq: Well, first of all,
I want to thank you for having me.

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This is an Excellent program you have.

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I love Healthy, Wealthy, and Wise.

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I was just listening a few days ago
to that lecture you gave on artificial

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intelligence, and I thought as an old
guy like me that I would never understand

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artificial intelligence, but now after
listening to you, I understand it.

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Thanks so

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: much.

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Bernie Brown, Esq: Great.

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You're very welcome.

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I want to talk to you today about
what are your rights when dealing

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with the police and what are their
rights when dealing with you.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Good.

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This is one of the things
that you hear about.

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You hear about in the media all the time.

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Recently in the media, uh, just
as recently as a few days ago, a

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young boy was shot by the police.

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Okay.

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Um, And your question
always is, can they do that?

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Uh, Sean Diddy Combs, you know,
that famous rapper, they raided

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his home and they did a whole bunch
of agents converged on his home,

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throwing things all over the place.

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They left it a mess, but, uh, the
question is, Can they do that?

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Is that legal?

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You see the police chases every day.

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Are those legal?

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You know, if you've grown up
in a community or wherever you

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may live, a lot of times people
are subject to police stops.

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There are car searches.

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There are home searches.

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There are body searches.

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We're going to deal with all
of those questions today.

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All of those issues today.

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And, uh, this is actually a very
serious top topic because, you know,

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it can have, how it can have deadly
consequences as we heard in the news.

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Uh, I remember growing up, growing
up in South LA and, uh, you know,

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I saw one of my, uh, one of my team
friends get killed by the police and,

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uh, I know I was frequently stopped.

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I think they probably stopped me because
I had a big natural, I probably fit the

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profile, they probably said he's got to be

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: a

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Bernie Brown, Esq: natural that big,
but I got stopped quite a few times.

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And let me just tell you one time,
just as background information,

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one time I got stopped.

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It was in the 70s.

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I'm telling you how old I am now.

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But I was a young man in the 70s.

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And they stopped my vehicle.

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And they made me get out the car.

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And they came up and
they started searching.

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They went through the glove
compartment and they started

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throwing stuff on the floor.

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And then they went around to the back and
open the trunk and they started pulling

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stuff out and throwing it in the street.

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And I said to them, I
said, it was two officers.

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I said, wait a minute.

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He can't do that.

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They didn't know.

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I just left a constitutional law class.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: He said

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Bernie Brown, Esq: something to me,
something to me, the officer said,

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Oh, my partner's trigger happy.

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Oh, he will kill you and no one will
ever hear your side of the story.

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You better step back.

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Wow.

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And that was a lesson to you to me.

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That was before they had all
these cameras everywhere.

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Sure.

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Sure.

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Lesson to me.

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And so before we even get into the law,
I want to talk about common sense rules.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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With the police.

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Uh, first thing is.

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Always obey the police.

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When I say obey, obey their commands.

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Now we're going to talk at some
point about exceptions to the rule.

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Cause there are, there are exceptions,
but generally speaking, obey the

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police, keep your hands in a place
where they can see your hands.

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Okay.

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Do not run from the police.

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Do not fight with the police, do not
reach inside your pocket when dealing

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with the police, do not approach a
police officer with a weapon in your

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hand, and generally speaking, be polite.

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When dealing with the police

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: now, should
your hands be by your sides or what?

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What should you do with them

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Bernie Brown, Esq: so
that they're visible?

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Okay, your hands so that officers can see
that you have no weapons in your hands.

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Keep in mind these situations.

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Confrontations can be quite intense.

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They can be stressful and sometimes
I think they're afraid to understand.

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And so they want to make
sure that they're secure.

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And that you're not going to pull out a
weapon out of your jacket or whatever.

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So keep your hands where they can see it.

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And what the way to do it is if you
feel as though you were mishandled,

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just cooperate out there in the field.

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And then later go to the
police, your local police

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department and file a complaint.

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You can file a complaint or you
can contact your Uh, your lawyer

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and see if you have any type
of an action for civil rights.

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So that's the way that
that should be handled.

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It was for this common sense
dealing with the police.

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There's certain things you want to do
because you want to protect your life.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: Yes.

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Bernie Brown, Esq: And the police
want to feel secure themselves.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: Got it.

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Bernie Brown, Esq: So, uh, and also
I just want to say very quickly.

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Uh, don't, and this is a sensitive
thing here, uh, don't rely on, uh, me

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as far as going out and telling, uh,
uh, doing something and saying, Oh,

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attorney Bernie told me I could do that.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: Right.

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I listened to this podcast
and this guy told me

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Bernie Brown, Esq: that I could use
profanity when dealing with the officers.

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I have a constitutional free speech right.

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You assume the risk, your own risk.

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Now, please don't, uh, cite
me for, for your actions.

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And keep common sense,

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: use common sense.

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And

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Bernie Brown, Esq: keep in mind that
the laws are constantly changing and

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new laws and are often they're changing.

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They're being updated.

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They're being appealed.

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There are different laws
in different states.

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So with that background
information, let's get it on.

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Okay.

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So our analysis is from
three different perspectives.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay.

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Bernie Brown, Esq: One,
when you're in public.

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Okay, when you're like on a public
street or in a public place.

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All right.

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Secondly, when you are in a vehicle.

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And it's thirdly, you're right
when you are in your home.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: Got it.

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Public vehicle at home.

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Okay.

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Got it.

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Bernie Brown, Esq: So first, we're going
to start off with stops and detentions

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and searches when you're out in a public
place, not in a car and not in your home.

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And our question number one
is, can the police approach you

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and start asking you questions?

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And the answer is Yes, they can.

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It's called in the law is
called a consensual encounter.

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The police can just come up to you
and start asking you questions.

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How is that

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: consensual
if they don't ask for your consent?

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Bernie Brown, Esq: Well,

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Dr. William T. Choctaw:
Well, it was that presumed

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Bernie Brown, Esq: here.

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We're going to get to that and that you
see that's that you're brilliant analysis.

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All right, you're in a public place and
the right to be in a public place and they

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have the right to be in a public place.

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Come up and start asking you questions.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay,

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Bernie Brown, Esq: you don't
have to answer the question.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: Oh, okay.

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Bernie Brown, Esq: You can you and the
interesting thing is to not only can

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they come up to you in a public place
and start asking you questions, but they

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there have been cases that hold they
can actually come up to you and lie.

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They could come up to you and say, Well,
we have a videotape of you committing

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a crime, and it'll go better for you if
you just if you just confess right here.

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Okay.

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And that's been found constitutionally
to be permissible for them to lie to you.

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Now you can always, the smart
thing to do is I just say, I

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exercise my right to remain silent.

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Okay.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: Tell
me that again, that phrase.

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Bernie Brown, Esq: I exercise my right.

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I exercise my right.

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Officer, I respectfully exercise my legal
constitutional right to remain silent.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: To remain silent.

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Okay.

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Bernie Brown, Esq: Now keep in mind
that if they come up to you and

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they're asking you questions and
if they ask you for identification,

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hey, hey, we need identification.

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They can ask you for identification,
but, and you are required to

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provide them identification.

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If they have a valid reason for
now, we're into a detention.

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uh, and we're gonna talk later about
identification and registration

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when you're dealing with a car.

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Dr. William T. Choctaw: But

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Bernie Brown, Esq: with regard to
being in the public place, they can

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ask you for identification if they
have a valid reason for stopping you.

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Generally, the reason they're stopping
you is, let's say they want to give

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you a traffic ticket for, uh, Citation
for throwing trash on the street

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or something or, uh, for littering,
uh, or so we're not in a car yet.

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We're still in public.

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Okay, so they can ask you
for your identification.

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Now you can tell them.

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No, I'm not giving you
your identification now.

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Keep in mind for a general misdemeanor.

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Okay, infraction, just a ticket.

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They're not going to arrest
you and take you to jail.

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Generally for an infraction or a
ticket, all they're going to do is

239
00:12:18,990 --> 00:12:20,540
write you a ticket and let you go.

240
00:12:21,129 --> 00:12:21,579
Dr. William T. Choctaw: But if

241
00:12:21,589 --> 00:12:25,849
Bernie Brown, Esq: you refuse to
give them ID, then they're going to

242
00:12:25,849 --> 00:12:27,219
say, well, we don't know who you are.

243
00:12:27,219 --> 00:12:30,869
Now we have to arrest you, take
you into, take you into the police

244
00:12:30,879 --> 00:12:32,620
station to determine who you are.

245
00:12:33,039 --> 00:12:34,719
And they can legitimately do that.

246
00:12:35,179 --> 00:12:35,659
So.

247
00:12:36,125 --> 00:12:37,765
That's where that stands with

248
00:12:37,974 --> 00:12:40,314
Dr. William T. Choctaw: so
then by law, you have to always

249
00:12:40,314 --> 00:12:42,454
carry a wallet or a person.

250
00:12:42,505 --> 00:12:42,915
You should

251
00:12:42,915 --> 00:12:43,895
Bernie Brown, Esq: have some form.

252
00:12:43,974 --> 00:12:45,284
You don't have to carry it.

253
00:12:45,284 --> 00:12:47,184
You should have some
form of identification.

254
00:12:48,210 --> 00:12:50,050
Or you should be able
to identify yourself.

255
00:12:50,050 --> 00:12:52,850
A lot of times they have a
computer and if you tell them your

256
00:12:52,860 --> 00:12:54,470
name, they can run it into the,

257
00:12:54,510 --> 00:12:55,150
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Oh, I see.

258
00:12:55,210 --> 00:12:55,680
I see.

259
00:12:55,699 --> 00:12:57,300
So ID could just be telling them.

260
00:12:57,300 --> 00:12:57,590
Date

261
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:58,120
Bernie Brown, Esq: of birth.

262
00:12:58,420 --> 00:12:58,810
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay.

263
00:12:59,180 --> 00:12:59,430
If

264
00:12:59,430 --> 00:13:04,109
Bernie Brown, Esq: they are unable to
identify you and you have no license

265
00:13:04,109 --> 00:13:10,420
or any other identifying information,
then they may say, we have to take

266
00:13:10,430 --> 00:13:13,620
you in to confirm your identity.

267
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:17,329
Here's an interesting point.

268
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:19,610
Question number.

269
00:13:20,450 --> 00:13:24,940
What do you do if the police ask
you for permission to search you?

270
00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:25,880
Right.

271
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:31,329
I was giving a lecture, uh, some
years back, uh, at a college.

272
00:13:31,349 --> 00:13:36,290
And there were all of these college
students, and I asked them that question.

273
00:13:36,549 --> 00:13:40,229
I asked, if a police officer
comes up to you and asks for

274
00:13:40,229 --> 00:13:42,550
permission to search you, Right.

275
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:44,370
What should be your answer?

276
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:48,239
And they all, all of them said, yes.

277
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,819
Yes, we should, we should allow
the police officer to search us,

278
00:13:52,860 --> 00:13:55,599
give him consent to search us.

279
00:13:56,089 --> 00:14:02,470
And I said, I mean, you
can do that, but you don't

280
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:03,050
Dr. William T. Choctaw: have to

281
00:14:03,060 --> 00:14:05,580
Bernie Brown, Esq: weigh, you
don't have to, and you waive

282
00:14:05,580 --> 00:14:07,310
all your constitutional rights.

283
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:08,140
Dr. William T. Choctaw: If

284
00:14:08,149 --> 00:14:13,949
Bernie Brown, Esq: you, if you give
consent to search, because you have

285
00:14:13,949 --> 00:14:20,459
the police can't search you unless they
meet certain constitutional standards.

286
00:14:21,030 --> 00:14:25,530
And once you waive your right, if you just
can sit and say, Oh, you could search me.

287
00:14:26,030 --> 00:14:28,990
then they don't have to meet
those constitutional standards.

288
00:14:29,450 --> 00:14:31,430
Dr. William T. Choctaw: But you
see the residents always at a

289
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:34,849
disadvantage because the police know
what those standards are, but the

290
00:14:34,849 --> 00:14:36,569
average person doesn't have a clue.

291
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,079
Bernie Brown, Esq: Oh,
you are absolutely right.

292
00:14:39,609 --> 00:14:44,230
They play a lot of tricks, you know,
they'll come up to you and say, Hey,

293
00:14:44,479 --> 00:14:48,900
you know what, do you have any, you
have any drugs on you or anything,

294
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:54,800
you know, just make it easier for me
to talk with you if you got any drugs

295
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,370
or any contraband or any weapons.

296
00:14:57,750 --> 00:15:03,010
And if you say, yes, officer, I
have cocaine and methamphetamine

297
00:15:03,010 --> 00:15:04,460
and heroin in my pocket.

298
00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:07,729
Then it's, oh, okay, now you've
given them probable cause and

299
00:15:07,729 --> 00:15:09,869
reasonable suspicion to search you.

300
00:15:10,069 --> 00:15:10,950
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Right, right.

301
00:15:10,950 --> 00:15:11,189
They're going to

302
00:15:11,390 --> 00:15:13,200
Bernie Brown, Esq: rush
right in and start searching.

303
00:15:13,770 --> 00:15:19,125
Ordinarily, if you don't give them
consent, And you don't tell them

304
00:15:19,505 --> 00:15:23,625
voluntarily that you have some
illegal substance, then they must

305
00:15:23,645 --> 00:15:28,655
meet certain legal requirements
before they can search you.

306
00:15:29,205 --> 00:15:35,385
Those legal requirements are basically,
and there are quite a few of them, but

307
00:15:35,385 --> 00:15:37,014
there are several ways they can meet it.

308
00:15:37,275 --> 00:15:38,545
And one is a warrant.

309
00:15:38,655 --> 00:15:40,354
They must have a warrant.

310
00:15:40,709 --> 00:15:41,229
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay,

311
00:15:41,329 --> 00:15:42,310
Bernie Brown, Esq: just search you.

312
00:15:42,850 --> 00:15:46,190
If they don't have a warrant and
a warrant, they have to go to a

313
00:15:46,190 --> 00:15:50,640
judge and they have to ask the judge
permission to give them a warrant.

314
00:15:50,959 --> 00:15:53,860
And then they have to meet
certain standards in order to

315
00:15:53,860 --> 00:15:56,030
qualify for a warrant, right?

316
00:15:56,060 --> 00:15:57,459
They don't have a warrant.

317
00:15:57,709 --> 00:16:02,850
They can have what's called probable
cause or reasonable suspicion.

318
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:11,060
Okay, that you have some illegal
contraband or some weapons or something

319
00:16:11,369 --> 00:16:18,260
in which event they can search you,
especially if they observe any what

320
00:16:18,260 --> 00:16:22,489
they call furtive conduct, if they
observe you putting drugs in your

321
00:16:22,499 --> 00:16:27,369
pocket, or they observe you putting
a weapon in your pocket, or they go.

322
00:16:27,579 --> 00:16:31,050
You know, if they observe you
committing a crime in their presence.

323
00:16:31,635 --> 00:16:37,275
They can also get, uh, you can also
be searched pursuant to, uh, arrest.

324
00:16:37,725 --> 00:16:45,484
If you commit a crime and you are
arrested, then they can search you as part

325
00:16:45,485 --> 00:16:50,844
of the booking process for officer safety.

326
00:16:51,624 --> 00:16:54,545
And, uh, if they find anything.

327
00:16:54,910 --> 00:16:58,300
While they're conducting that search,
when they're placing you under

328
00:16:58,300 --> 00:17:04,609
arrest, then they can use that against
you, uh, in a court of law, okay?

329
00:17:04,670 --> 00:17:10,200
So, there is something that's commonly
referred to as a pat down search.

330
00:17:10,229 --> 00:17:11,219
Now that's different.

331
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,560
A pat down search is a search
where they just touch you on

332
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,190
the outside of your clothing.

333
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:19,370
Okay.

334
00:17:19,609 --> 00:17:25,520
A full search is a search where they can
go inside your pockets and where they can,

335
00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:31,430
uh, try to retrieve anything inside your
pockets and search inside your pockets.

336
00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:38,360
Generally speaking, a pat down search
on the outside of your, of your person.

337
00:17:38,670 --> 00:17:39,060
Right.

338
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:43,790
It is old permissible if they
have legally detained you that has

339
00:17:43,790 --> 00:17:45,780
stopped you for a valid legal reason.

340
00:17:46,189 --> 00:17:50,990
legal reason, and if they have a
reasonable suspicion to believe that

341
00:17:50,990 --> 00:17:54,570
you may be armed and dangerous, okay?

342
00:17:55,050 --> 00:17:59,899
Now that gets real interesting because
what they do is if they have a reason

343
00:18:00,049 --> 00:18:04,959
to do a pat down, they can pat down,
and if they feel something hard on you

344
00:18:05,169 --> 00:18:10,795
that feels like a weapon, Inside one of
your pockets or inside your belt bucket,

345
00:18:10,995 --> 00:18:13,524
Dr. William T. Choctaw: so, so, so
the definition of possible weapon

346
00:18:13,524 --> 00:18:15,034
is something that feels hard.

347
00:18:15,304 --> 00:18:17,644
Let's say I have a piece
of hard candy in my pocket.

348
00:18:17,695 --> 00:18:20,184
I mean, I, that's not if

349
00:18:20,185 --> 00:18:23,004
Bernie Brown, Esq: it's something that
feels hard, that might be like a weapon.

350
00:18:23,045 --> 00:18:27,355
Like it feels like if they can
articulate that it felt like a knife

351
00:18:27,365 --> 00:18:29,705
or a gun or something like that.

352
00:18:30,024 --> 00:18:30,475
Okay.

353
00:18:30,485 --> 00:18:31,034
Okay.

354
00:18:31,274 --> 00:18:32,345
Now you're right.

355
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,130
It could be a candy bar.

356
00:18:34,370 --> 00:18:35,580
It could be drugs.

357
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:41,590
But if they can say, Oh, Your Honor, I
thought I did a pat down search because

358
00:18:41,629 --> 00:18:43,090
I thought he might have a weapon.

359
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:46,800
Because when I saw there was a
report, he might have had a weapon

360
00:18:47,139 --> 00:18:52,120
or I saw him look like he was,
uh, like he might have a weapon.

361
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:54,129
It was something bulging from his pocket.

362
00:18:54,439 --> 00:18:58,260
They do the pat down and they say,
Oh, we did the pat down search and we

363
00:18:58,260 --> 00:19:00,060
felt something that felt like a gun.

364
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,439
And so then they can go in your pocket.

365
00:19:03,595 --> 00:19:03,955
Okay.

366
00:19:03,955 --> 00:19:04,695
To retrieve it.

367
00:19:04,695 --> 00:19:05,074
Got it.

368
00:19:05,455 --> 00:19:06,895
Now that gets interesting.

369
00:19:07,044 --> 00:19:10,995
When they go in your pocket
to retrieve it, if it isn't

370
00:19:10,995 --> 00:19:13,654
a gun, that's, that's okay.

371
00:19:14,115 --> 00:19:17,875
But if they find, if it's drugs,
then they can retrieve the drugs.

372
00:19:18,215 --> 00:19:20,675
So it's a legal excuse
that they can search you.

373
00:19:21,384 --> 00:19:21,975
Okay.

374
00:19:21,975 --> 00:19:24,794
Uh, interesting thought.

375
00:19:24,795 --> 00:19:26,754
Dr. William T. Choctaw:
Let me ask a question.

376
00:19:27,145 --> 00:19:29,574
I'm, I'm originally from Nashville,
Tennessee, and we would make,

377
00:19:29,584 --> 00:19:32,884
when I was growing up, we were
told you just stay away from them.

378
00:19:33,265 --> 00:19:35,925
You know, good things don't happen
when you're around the police.

379
00:19:35,965 --> 00:19:36,305
All right.

380
00:19:36,654 --> 00:19:42,975
So, so, so as a result, uh, um, uh,
you know, even, even if at a, in a

381
00:19:43,005 --> 00:19:49,225
traffic, a traffic signal, you know,
one would pull up beside my car.

382
00:19:49,295 --> 00:19:53,745
I'm, I'm looking over because I'm, I'm
still going back from those previous,

383
00:19:53,875 --> 00:19:55,985
I've never had an encounter with police.

384
00:19:56,365 --> 00:20:01,924
Um, but a lot of times you can act real
nervously, even if you're innocent, as

385
00:20:01,925 --> 00:20:05,525
a matter of fact, I would argue a lot of
people who are innocent act real nervously

386
00:20:05,795 --> 00:20:10,195
because it's just stress or anxiety
they have about law enforcement, maybe.

387
00:20:10,415 --> 00:20:12,255
How does one deal with that?

388
00:20:12,265 --> 00:20:15,565
You know, you're, because you're
already at a disadvantage, what,

389
00:20:15,565 --> 00:20:16,975
what, what would you advise they do?

390
00:20:17,035 --> 00:20:19,035
Bernie Brown, Esq: Well, nervousness just.

391
00:20:19,490 --> 00:20:26,170
per se nervousness, not sufficient for an
officer to justify a detention or a stop.

392
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,640
But, you know, there are all these
different cases and they vary, very,

393
00:20:29,660 --> 00:20:32,840
very as to the factual circumstances.

394
00:20:33,410 --> 00:20:39,040
Certainly if, if nervousness is running
from an off police officer, That may,

395
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:45,210
uh, be sufficient for probable cause
and raise a reasonable suspicion that

396
00:20:45,210 --> 00:20:51,570
justifies the officer in detaining you
and or, uh, conducting a possible search.

397
00:20:51,930 --> 00:20:58,520
So there are various levels of
factual things that may happen.

398
00:20:59,195 --> 00:20:59,735
So

399
00:20:59,755 --> 00:21:01,775
Dr. William T. Choctaw: if I'm
nervous, is there anything I

400
00:21:01,795 --> 00:21:03,615
should not do other than run?

401
00:21:03,885 --> 00:21:08,285
Let's say I'm nervous, but I'm starting
to sweat and already, because I see

402
00:21:08,285 --> 00:21:12,574
this guy coming toward me or whatever,
or I'm looking around and I'm looking

403
00:21:12,575 --> 00:21:16,134
over my shoulder, so I'm probably
acting a little suspicious, right?

404
00:21:16,425 --> 00:21:18,235
But I'm just nervous of the uniform.

405
00:21:18,235 --> 00:21:19,774
So how do I deal with that?

406
00:21:19,995 --> 00:21:22,075
Bernie Brown, Esq: If you're
just nervous, you just, all

407
00:21:22,075 --> 00:21:23,415
you can do is just act normal.

408
00:21:23,585 --> 00:21:25,745
Don't take anything and throw it away.

409
00:21:25,815 --> 00:21:33,235
I'm going to throw it in the, in the
bushes, uh, suggestive that you, or

410
00:21:33,235 --> 00:21:40,194
don't, uh, don't start going in your
pockets or, you know, the officer will

411
00:21:40,204 --> 00:21:42,755
have to justify why he started you.

412
00:21:43,014 --> 00:21:45,954
And he just said, you were
sweating and walking fast.

413
00:21:46,194 --> 00:21:46,924
That's not enough.

414
00:21:47,795 --> 00:21:49,565
Okay, the judge is going to throw it out.

415
00:21:49,955 --> 00:21:53,045
Okay, so it'll be a fact by fact analysis.

416
00:21:53,485 --> 00:21:56,625
If he just says you look nervous,
that should not be enough.

417
00:21:56,995 --> 00:21:59,715
They have to have something
in addition to that.

418
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,830
to justify the detention.

419
00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:02,670
Okay.

420
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:03,710
Okay.

421
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:04,480
And the stop.

422
00:22:05,340 --> 00:22:09,250
Uh, so it goes right along with that.

423
00:22:09,250 --> 00:22:13,759
The next question is, can the police
detain you for no reason at all?

424
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:19,230
And the answer is no, they have to have
probable cause or reasonable suspicion

425
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:24,670
to believe that you have committed
a crime before they can detain you.

426
00:22:25,125 --> 00:22:29,595
Like I said earlier, there's a difference
between detaining you and telling

427
00:22:29,774 --> 00:22:32,294
you that you are not free to leave.

428
00:22:32,705 --> 00:22:33,205
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay.

429
00:22:33,445 --> 00:22:35,605
Bernie Brown, Esq: And just
having a consensual encounter.

430
00:22:35,834 --> 00:22:38,635
So when the police come up to you
and they start talking to you, you

431
00:22:38,635 --> 00:22:41,725
can say to him at some point you
can say or immediately you can say,

432
00:22:42,465 --> 00:22:43,784
Officer, I haven't done anything.

433
00:22:44,054 --> 00:22:44,955
Am I free to leave?

434
00:22:45,834 --> 00:22:53,225
Now, if he says, no, you're not free to
leave, I want to talk to you now that he

435
00:22:53,225 --> 00:22:56,155
has to have a reason for detaining you.

436
00:22:56,294 --> 00:23:00,905
Because once you're not free to leave
certain legal rights come into play.

437
00:23:00,975 --> 00:23:01,314
Dr. William T. Choctaw: I see.

438
00:23:01,814 --> 00:23:02,434
I see.

439
00:23:02,445 --> 00:23:05,554
Bernie Brown, Esq: Once he tells you that,
but once you, it becomes apparent that

440
00:23:05,554 --> 00:23:11,085
you're not free to leave your rights,
your constitutional rights automatically.

441
00:23:11,385 --> 00:23:13,835
Come into into form into play.

442
00:23:14,155 --> 00:23:15,095
And so, okay,

443
00:23:15,465 --> 00:23:19,385
Dr. William T. Choctaw: so I'm sitting
in McDonald's having a Big Mac and

444
00:23:19,385 --> 00:23:21,725
these offices come in in uniform.

445
00:23:22,004 --> 00:23:25,735
Now I'm nervous of the officers and
I'm sweating and the whole thing.

446
00:23:26,074 --> 00:23:32,504
And they come over to my table in
McDonald's and they start talking to me.

447
00:23:33,145 --> 00:23:37,455
And I, I just want to get out because
I'm just, I'm just, they, they just

448
00:23:37,485 --> 00:23:44,164
terrify me, you know, and, and so,
so, so I, I, so I should, so it's

449
00:23:44,164 --> 00:23:48,214
okay for me to say, officer, am I
free to leave or something to that?

450
00:23:48,225 --> 00:23:48,474
You can

451
00:23:48,475 --> 00:23:52,624
Bernie Brown, Esq: say that, or you
can say, I don't want to talk to you.

452
00:23:52,625 --> 00:23:53,745
Leave my table.

453
00:23:55,045 --> 00:23:55,445
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay.

454
00:23:55,445 --> 00:23:57,625
But, but I need to say it in a nice way.

455
00:23:58,235 --> 00:23:59,245
Be polite.

456
00:23:59,305 --> 00:24:01,065
Because I need to be polite.

457
00:24:01,065 --> 00:24:01,335
Okay.

458
00:24:01,365 --> 00:24:02,865
Bernie Brown, Esq: Do is
make the officer angry.

459
00:24:02,865 --> 00:24:05,775
You know, these officers get mad
and that's what really happens when

460
00:24:05,775 --> 00:24:07,675
people are fleeing from the offices.

461
00:24:08,164 --> 00:24:08,434
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Right.

462
00:24:08,475 --> 00:24:08,754
They

463
00:24:08,784 --> 00:24:12,944
Bernie Brown, Esq: get angry and you
know, by the time they catch you, if

464
00:24:12,944 --> 00:24:17,054
they have to go through a lot to catch
a person, or if you have an attitude

465
00:24:17,084 --> 00:24:22,014
and they don't like your attitude, then
they try to do anything within the law.

466
00:24:22,565 --> 00:24:22,945
Uh huh.

467
00:24:22,975 --> 00:24:25,634
Within the law to make a case on you.

468
00:24:26,064 --> 00:24:32,874
So it's just, it's just so much easier
to be polite and courteous and agreeable

469
00:24:33,024 --> 00:24:35,204
to the extent possible with officer.

470
00:24:35,725 --> 00:24:35,945
Okay.

471
00:24:36,604 --> 00:24:41,894
But you can still be polite and say, I
do not give you permission to search me.

472
00:24:42,304 --> 00:24:46,619
And I don't want to talk to you,
you know, I don't just, you know.

473
00:24:47,010 --> 00:24:48,160
I don't want to answer any questions.

474
00:24:48,430 --> 00:24:49,860
Dr. William T. Choctaw: So
you can actually say that as

475
00:24:49,860 --> 00:24:51,230
long as you say it politely.

476
00:24:51,970 --> 00:24:53,380
Bernie Brown, Esq: I
don't want to talk to you.

477
00:24:53,660 --> 00:24:59,299
Not politely, but it may have certain,
you know, you may get them upset.

478
00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:00,339
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay.

479
00:25:00,620 --> 00:25:01,100
Okay.

480
00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:05,809
Bernie Brown, Esq: Now, you know, there
are certain misconceptions out there too.

481
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:06,340
Okay.

482
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:07,560
A lot of misconceptions.

483
00:25:07,930 --> 00:25:10,710
You know, a lot of times, uh,
the question is, you know, you

484
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:12,280
hear about the Miranda rights.

485
00:25:12,380 --> 00:25:12,690
Yes.

486
00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:15,910
You hear them saying, you have
the right to remain silent.

487
00:25:16,199 --> 00:25:21,329
And if you waive that right, anything
you say can and will be used against you.

488
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,179
Dr. William T. Choctaw: When
did they have to do that?

489
00:25:23,210 --> 00:25:23,919
They don't have to

490
00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:24,519
Bernie Brown, Esq: do that.

491
00:25:24,540 --> 00:25:25,610
And that's the point.

492
00:25:25,940 --> 00:25:28,170
They don't have to do that
until you're under arrest.

493
00:25:28,290 --> 00:25:29,730
That's the thing.

494
00:25:29,970 --> 00:25:33,020
See, a lot of people think that they
have to do that when they immediately

495
00:25:33,020 --> 00:25:34,550
come up to you and start talking to you.

496
00:25:34,845 --> 00:25:35,125
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Got it.

497
00:25:35,245 --> 00:25:35,325
But

498
00:25:35,355 --> 00:25:36,115
Bernie Brown, Esq: they don't.

499
00:25:36,564 --> 00:25:41,124
Until they say, we're putting you in
cuffs, or until they say, we're placing

500
00:25:41,124 --> 00:25:45,504
you under arrest, that's when they have
to tell you, you, you have the right

501
00:25:45,504 --> 00:25:49,314
to remain silent, you have the right
to an attorney, if you cannot afford an

502
00:25:49,314 --> 00:25:53,154
attorney, one will be provided to you
for you and blah, blah, blah, all of

503
00:25:53,154 --> 00:25:55,054
those, all your, you know, your rights.

504
00:25:55,694 --> 00:25:56,094
Okay.

505
00:25:56,164 --> 00:25:59,665
That doesn't come into play
until you get to that stage.

506
00:26:00,435 --> 00:26:05,645
Uh, you know, and they're interesting
things because the next question, can

507
00:26:05,645 --> 00:26:07,895
the police arrest you for a crime?

508
00:26:07,895 --> 00:26:10,705
They did not see you commit, right?

509
00:26:10,935 --> 00:26:11,664
See the crime.

510
00:26:12,164 --> 00:26:14,765
Well, it depends on the category of crime.

511
00:26:15,374 --> 00:26:20,354
Okay, it's a felony and a felony
is a crime that had their list

512
00:26:20,374 --> 00:26:22,264
of crimes that are felonies.

513
00:26:22,564 --> 00:26:25,445
And generally it's a crime where
you can go to state prison.

514
00:26:26,575 --> 00:26:29,535
And with a felony, they don't have to.

515
00:26:30,020 --> 00:26:31,860
personally see the crime.

516
00:26:31,860 --> 00:26:40,020
They can rely on, uh, police 911
calls and reliable informants.

517
00:26:40,430 --> 00:26:43,300
They can rely on information
that they've received.

518
00:26:43,940 --> 00:26:50,619
Uh, and they can use that as a basis,
uh, for, uh, for arrest, witness

519
00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:52,449
statements, et cetera, et cetera.

520
00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:53,899
Now it's a little bit different.

521
00:26:53,939 --> 00:26:56,220
Well, it's a lot different
with regard to infractions and

522
00:26:56,230 --> 00:27:02,740
misdemeanors and infraction is a
crime that is not punishable by jail.

523
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:03,390
Okay.

524
00:27:03,540 --> 00:27:05,190
Misdemeanor is a crime.

525
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,430
There are lists of misdemeanors
and generally the maximum

526
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:13,379
sentence for a misdemeanor is
one year in the county jail.

527
00:27:13,850 --> 00:27:14,149
Okay.

528
00:27:14,199 --> 00:27:18,209
Ordinarily for infractions they're just
going to write you a ticket like we said

529
00:27:18,209 --> 00:27:23,355
earlier, they're just going to release
you so they will not Uh, they cannot,

530
00:27:23,595 --> 00:27:26,785
they don't have, they do need to see
you commit the crime, I should say.

531
00:27:26,805 --> 00:27:27,175
Right,

532
00:27:27,205 --> 00:27:27,615
Dr. William T. Choctaw: right.

533
00:27:27,715 --> 00:27:28,195
Bernie Brown, Esq: Okay.

534
00:27:28,405 --> 00:27:30,565
Dr. William T. Choctaw: If it's
an infraction and it's for one

535
00:27:30,575 --> 00:27:34,055
year, doesn't that make it a
felony if it's one year or no?

536
00:27:34,555 --> 00:27:38,475
Bernie Brown, Esq: Ah, the
infraction is no, no jail time.

537
00:27:38,805 --> 00:27:40,495
An infraction is just a fine.

538
00:27:40,834 --> 00:27:41,164
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay.

539
00:27:41,174 --> 00:27:41,294
A

540
00:27:41,354 --> 00:27:44,715
Bernie Brown, Esq: misdemeanor
is jail time up to one year.

541
00:27:44,855 --> 00:27:46,004
Okay, got it, got it.

542
00:27:46,005 --> 00:27:48,315
And a felony, It's pretty

543
00:27:48,315 --> 00:27:48,975
Dr. William T. Choctaw: local money.

544
00:27:49,395 --> 00:27:53,515
Bernie Brown, Esq: Yeah, it can
be less, but it's actual prison

545
00:27:54,325 --> 00:27:56,325
compared to low county jail.

546
00:27:57,220 --> 00:27:57,480
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay.

547
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:57,630
Okay.

548
00:27:57,830 --> 00:28:00,380
Bernie Brown, Esq: Now there are
lists that delineate, but the

549
00:28:00,380 --> 00:28:02,110
rights for each one is different.

550
00:28:02,130 --> 00:28:02,850
Like a felony.

551
00:28:02,850 --> 00:28:06,419
Like I said, they could, they could,
they can arrest you for a felony,

552
00:28:06,430 --> 00:28:08,079
not committed in their presence.

553
00:28:08,479 --> 00:28:12,679
They cannot arrest you for an infraction,
not committing in your presence.

554
00:28:12,679 --> 00:28:13,760
They can write you a ticket.

555
00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:14,509
Okay.

556
00:28:14,530 --> 00:28:15,899
Most jurisdictions.

557
00:28:16,190 --> 00:28:21,659
For most misdemeanors, they can
only what we call cite and release.

558
00:28:21,889 --> 00:28:25,139
They can write you a
ticket and release you.

559
00:28:25,170 --> 00:28:27,030
The ticket will have a court date on it.

560
00:28:27,030 --> 00:28:30,190
It'll say you have to appear on
such and such a date, such as at

561
00:28:30,190 --> 00:28:36,240
the time to answer for the crime of,
of, uh, battery, you know, slapping

562
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,810
your wife or whatever it might be.

563
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:40,220
Uh, but.

564
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:51,850
Uh, there are certain misdemeanors
where they can arrest you, and

565
00:28:51,879 --> 00:28:54,710
the most prominent one is DUI.

566
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:56,090
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Okay.

567
00:28:56,189 --> 00:28:57,119
Ah, okay.

568
00:28:57,340 --> 00:29:00,339
Bernie Brown, Esq: They stop you,
uh, you're driving your vehicle

569
00:29:00,340 --> 00:29:05,020
and they can stop you if you
commit a DUI and start violence.

570
00:29:05,345 --> 00:29:09,705
Uh, misdemeanors where they can
arrest you without actually having

571
00:29:09,705 --> 00:29:12,075
seen you, uh, commit the crime.

572
00:29:12,075 --> 00:29:15,645
And then the next question is, can
the police search my wallet or purse?

573
00:29:16,075 --> 00:29:20,104
If they stop you in a public place
and you're walking around, can

574
00:29:20,105 --> 00:29:21,784
they come to you and search you?

575
00:29:21,835 --> 00:29:22,955
Oh, can I search your wallet?

576
00:29:23,014 --> 00:29:23,344
No.

577
00:29:23,354 --> 00:29:26,825
We already said, no, we're not going
to let them search your wallet or

578
00:29:26,825 --> 00:29:29,985
purse, but they can search your wallet.

579
00:29:30,175 --> 00:29:34,315
Or your purse, uh, for
identifying information.

580
00:29:36,065 --> 00:29:39,915
If you don't have any identifying
information and they are, and they want

581
00:29:39,915 --> 00:29:45,395
to recite you, we discussed that earlier
and, or if they have a reasonable reason

582
00:29:45,395 --> 00:29:51,395
to believe that you may have a deadly
weapon, that you may be, uh, have an, uh,

583
00:29:51,584 --> 00:29:53,834
arm that you may be armed and dangerous.

584
00:29:54,874 --> 00:29:57,915
They believe reasonably
that you have a weapon.

585
00:29:58,305 --> 00:30:03,185
Then they can, uh, search,
uh, you for that weapon.

586
00:30:03,315 --> 00:30:07,085
Initially, they would do what
we call a pat down search.

587
00:30:07,375 --> 00:30:10,415
We talk about that, where they,
where they just feel out on

588
00:30:10,425 --> 00:30:12,425
the outside of your clothing.

589
00:30:12,855 --> 00:30:14,705
And if they have reason to
believe, then they can do a

590
00:30:14,705 --> 00:30:16,645
more complete, thorough search.

591
00:30:17,045 --> 00:30:17,845
Dr. William T. Choctaw: Thank you, sir.

592
00:30:17,855 --> 00:30:18,525
Thank you, sir.

593
00:30:18,795 --> 00:30:23,635
And, and what we always like to say to
ourselves and to our audience, be the

594
00:30:23,635 --> 00:30:25,855
change that you want to see in the world.

595
00:30:26,395 --> 00:30:27,315
Have a great day.

596
00:30:27,925 --> 00:30:28,445
Thank you.