Leadership in Crisis: How Dr. Esteban Ramirez Guided a University Through COVID-19

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Coming up on this

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episode of the healthy,
wealthy, and wise podcast.

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You were actually the porn
person on COVID, weren't you?

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Tell us about that.

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So, uh, you know, what was
interesting is I was doing a lot

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of teaching at that time and then
COVID hit and was, had very little

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clinical, uh, time during that time.

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Cause I was focusing on my teaching and
I just kind of felt like, you know, I

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felt like God was calling me that I had
a special set of skills that I was not

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using, um, that perhaps could be used.

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this particular situation.

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So

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welcome to the Healthy, Wealthy
and Wise podcast with Dr.

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William T.

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Choctaw, MD, JD.

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This podcast will provide you with
tools and actionable information

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you can use to help live a more
healthy, wealthy and wise life.

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It's powered by the over 50 years
of medical experience of this Yale

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University Medical School trained
surgeon, who is also a Western

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State Law School trained attorney.

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With executive experience being a former
Former Mayor of Walnut, California,

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as well as the current chairman of the
Nonprofit Servants Arms, and as president

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of Choctaw Medical Group Incorporated.

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This is the leadership masterclass
edition already in progress.

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Well, listen, we thank you so much
for being, being willing to share,

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uh, some of your precious time.

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We know you're a very busy
person and got a lot of stuff to

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do, , uh, and, but we're absolutely
delighted to have the opportunity.

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to have you be guests on the
Healthy, Wealthy and Wise podcast.

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Yes.

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And this podcast is basically
based on leadership.

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And that's sort of a general term.

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And we sort of put
everything in that category.

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Our guest today is Dr.

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Esteban Ramirez.

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Why don't you sort of tell us
a little bit about yourself?

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Well, um, as you mentioned, Esteban
Ramirez, I grew up in California,

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uh, went to undergraduate school at
University of California, Riverside.

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That's where I received my
bachelor's in psychobiology with

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an emphasis in neuroscience.

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Uh, then I went, I knew that I wanted
to, to go to medical school at that

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point and started applying all throughout
the United States and Michigan State

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University is where I ended up going.

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Uh, was also able to complete
my residency there, uh, as well.

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And went on to Purdue university to get
my master's in business administration.

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Um, I became sport certified in internal
medicine as well as obesity medicine.

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Um, I've had a chance to work as a
hospitalist, so inpatient medicine, as

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well as outpatient internal medicine.

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I've, uh, was able to help establish
a preoperative clinic so that we

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can improve the throughput, um, for
surgeries for our patients in the area.

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I also teach over at Purdue university
and Indiana university school of

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medicine as an adjunct associate
professor of clinical medicine.

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Um, also I've, uh, had the pleasure of
being able to serve as a chief medical

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officer for Purdue university's,
uh, protect Purdue health center.

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Uh, for a couple of years.

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And then, uh, currently I work
as a medical director for Purdue

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University's health clinics, uh,
and, uh, get to see patients as well,

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uh, part time while I'm doing that.

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So, um, that's been good to me.

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He has, let me ask you a quick question.

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So you went to medical
school, your physician.

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Um, why in the world did you
decide to get a master's?

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Ah, yes.

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A lot of people ask me that.

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You know, medical school is very good
at teaching you the clinical know how.

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Yes.

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You can diagnose very well.

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You can, you know, learn how to
build rapport with your patients.

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You can learn, uh, you know, all the,
the clinical and the social aspects.

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But what's really important that I
think, um, most medical schools don't

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necessarily teach is how do you, uh,
run the business of medicine as well.

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So, uh, and that's the complexity.

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So, uh, you know, I've always been in
leadership positions throughout my, my,

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you know, my medical training, as well
as when I graduated and, uh, served as

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chair of my medical departments as well.

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And what I noticed is I was lacking a
basic know how of financial analysis.

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And also, uh, How do I, you know, how
do I understand when the administrators

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come and say, look, this is what
we need to try to work on to try to

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improve our costs or try to improve
our throughput for our patients.

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How do we work on that and make
it financially feasible as well?

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And that was something that
I wasn't very familiar with.

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And so I knew that in order to
kind of, um, bridge that chasm,

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that was, that was apparent.

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Uh, I knew that, uh, uh, something
such as a master's, uh, would help

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me to, and especially in business
administration or finance would be

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very, very important to try to help
bridge that gap that I currently had.

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Well, you're exactly, exactly right.

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And what I've learned is that some of that
has been, if not most of it, intentional.

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You know, that the people who
do run the money, they don't

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want physicians involved.

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They don't want clinicians at the table.

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That's right.

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You know, they said, no, no, no,
no, leave those doctors out of this.

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Let them, let them go to go
make rounds or something.

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Um, and I think part of that is,
was, is an insecurity on their part

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because they're threatened by us.

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but maybe rightfully so.

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Um, but, but it's, it's been intentional.

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It's been intentional.

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And I think you've come to the conclusion
that a number of physicians have

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is that you gotta know both sides.

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You know, you, you can't do, you can't
provide the quality care that you want to

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provide without having some control over
the finances that help you to do that.

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Because once you want to do something, I
said, well, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll take

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that on advisement and we'll let you know.

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And then, you know, six months later,
you said, well, what about so and so?

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It's, oh, we're still working on that.

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That's on the back burner.

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It's like, oh, that's not good.

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And the other thing is that by becoming an
MBA, you learn how to speak the language.

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Very, I think, very important
to speak the language.

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Once you speak the language,
then they can't ignore you.

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They say, oh, okay, blah,
blah, blah, that sort of thing.

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Right.

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Uh, so what, what, um.

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What lessons have you learned
as a CMO that you didn't

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know or that surprised you?

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Let me put it that way.

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You know, um, I, I think it was
just really neat to kind of see

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as I, I became the chief medical
officer during the middle of COVID.

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And so, you know, it was a very stressful
time for everyone, a lot of unknowns.

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And so it was really neat to kind of
see everyone kind of come together

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for the same, similar purpose
of we need to get through this.

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We want to keep people safe.

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Um, and.

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It was neat to be able to kind of
work with, uh, all different types of

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leaders, not only researchers, hospital
administrators, uh, public health

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officials, um, and also college deans
and, you know, professors to try to

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figure out what is our approach here at
Purdue university so that we can make

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this successful and keep our students
and professors as safe as possible.

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So it was really neat to
see that come together.

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You were actually the point
person on COVID, weren't you?

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I was, yeah.

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Tell us about that.

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Yeah, so, uh, you know, what was
interesting is I was doing a lot

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of teaching at that time, and then
COVID hit, and was, had very little

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clinical, uh, time during that time,
because I was focusing on my teaching.

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And I just kind of felt like, you know,
I felt like God was calling me that

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I had a special set of skills that I
was not using that perhaps could be

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used in this particular situation.

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So, um, I knew that we had a clinic where,
um, I would be able to possibly help out.

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So I asked if they had any
opportunities there and they

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immediately said, absolutely.

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Um, so they.

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Had me join and within a couple of
months, they said, Hey, by any chance,

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would you be interested in, uh, with
your leadership background and, and with

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everything that's kind of developing,
this would be a great opportunity, uh,

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to have you serve as our, our chief
medical officer for this program.

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Uh, and, and I was, uh, you know, I
was happy to, to serve in that way.

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Excellent.

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Excellent.

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Well, what, what did you learn that you
didn't know when, when you did that?

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You know how emotional people get under,
um, Under a situation where it is, you

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know, a lot of people don't know what we
didn't know at the time, what COVID would

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look like, uh, you know, what, what, what
we heard is there were a lot of deaths.

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There was a lot of, uh, you know, folks
who were sick for a really long time.

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And that ended up causing a lot of,
uh, stress, which, uh, Cause a lot of

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overreaction, I think, not only on,
um, you know, not only the students

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and professors, but mostly also from,
you know, those that love them, you

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know, so there were reactions, even
though it seemed strict at times to do

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certain things or, uh, that, that, but
it was in the end, I think people came

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around to understand that what we're
trying to do is try to keep people safe.

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Um, and how do we allow, uh,
also our, our professors and our

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students and staff to be able to.

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Also work because everybody needs to be
able to get things done, but we need to

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do it in as safe a manner as possible.

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So it was really, um, a
unique environment to work in.

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Um, the other thing I had a
pleasure of being able to do

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was work with Mitch Daniels.

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I was able to, you know, he was our
president over at Purdue University.

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Yes.

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He, by far, was Uh, the best leader that
I've ever had the pleasure of working

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with and having the opportunity to work
with him was, was amazing, uh, to be able

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to see how he had a clear focus for what
he was hoping to accomplish, not only

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at the university, but through something
as difficult and really, uh, difficult

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to anticipate what that would look like.

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Uh, he always had a vision of
where he wanted this to go.

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Um, so it was a real pleasure to be able
to work with him and also the leadership

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team that he, he developed as well.

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I think that's excellent.

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And I think, uh, people like,
uh, the university president,

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how large is Purdue university?

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Just so people can have an idea.

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It keeps growing every year.

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I think the last numbers were
somewhere close to 50, 000 now.

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Yeah.

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That's huge.

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Yeah.

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And it's, and it's growing every year.

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I think we're breaking
new freshman year records.

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Um, you know, we keep building new
living spaces for new students,

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which is a good problem to have.

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Yeah.

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Um, but also, um, you know, and we
have some really solid programs there.

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And, and I think a lot of people
are attracted to that and also

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attracted to the Midwest area.

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Would you say the, the, the president
was sort of like a mentor to you?

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Absolutely.

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Uh, you know, it, there were, uh, A
lot of folks who I think served in that

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particular role, but I think a lot of us
had never played a role similar to what we

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were doing just because again, here's an
unexpected illness, unexpected virus, and

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literally things were changing day by day.

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Uh, and trying to keep up with that
was very, very difficult, but at

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the same time, it was again, another
opportunity to see how we came together.

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I had the pleasure of being able to
work with other chief medical officers

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for the local hospital systems.

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So, uh, the two hospital systems here
in town, we were, we had meetings

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frequently and we were able to share,
you know, what's going on over here

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and what are you seeing over there
and what worked well, okay, great,

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let's not, you know, Uh, we'll try
to redo that since we know what's

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working well, what's not working well,
and then we'd learn off that as well.

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And, and so that sort of quick thinking
was, was imperative, I think, for us to

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be able to, uh, develop a program and
keep, keep adjusting and keep moving

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along with those spires that we were just
learning new things about at the time.

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One of the things I've learned, um,
exactly what you were saying, that

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mentorship, whether officially or
unofficially is almost invaluable to your

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growth and you don't plan it, you don't
choose it necessarily, but it happens.

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It happens.

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And, and I going back to your
earlier point, I think that's,

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that's part of God's process.

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You know, since you know what, you're
going down this road, you're going to need

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some help and I'm going to put so and so
and you'll meet him or her down the road.

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And, and.

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And they'll, they'll help you, you
know, with, with some of the questions

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and decisions you have to make.

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Uh, but I, I do believe that there,
there's, there's a bigger reason

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for that, a bigger role for that.

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Thank you for listening to the Healthy,
wealthy and Wise Podcast with Dr.

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William t Choctaw, MDJD.

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You can listen again to this in
any of the previous episodes.

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Leave a comment or pose questions to
the doctor by going to www.thwwp.com.

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That's www.th wwp.com and you've got it.

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It's also available wherever
you get your podcasts.

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Be sure to follow like shit.

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If you haven't already, then tune in
for the next episode of the Healthy,

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Wealthy, and Wise podcast with Dr.

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William T.

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Choctaw, MD, JD.

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