July 2, 2024
The Power of Transparency in Marriage: Lessons from the Sookram's Ministry
Join us as we delve into the transformative power of transparency in marriage with Gary and Tonji Sookram. They share how opening up about their struggles, seeking help from mentors, and actively participating in marriage counseling helped them heal and grow as a couple. Their openness and willingness to share their experiences offer valuable insights for couples seeking to strengthen their own relationships.
Transcript
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Coming up on this episode of the
Healthy, Wealthy Wise podcast.
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Well, you know, let me share
with you my perspective.
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Now, this is the first time you
and the two of you and I have
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talked about any of this ever.
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But I can tell you what my perspective
is just over the last hour.
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Welcome to the Healthy,
Wealthy Wise podcast with Dr.
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William T.
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Choctaw, MD, JD, where the
doctor helps you unlock your
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full potential by equipping you
with the tools and knowledge.
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Knowledge in the areas of health, wealth,
and wisdom anchored in his experience
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as a business executive, a physician
surveyor for the joint commission,
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a former mayor, and over 50 years
of experience as a general surgeon.
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You've got questions, he's got answers.
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So let's get started.
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Here's Dr.
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William t Choctaw.
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MDJD.
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Well, we're very, very happy,
uh, to welcome the Sucrum
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family, uh, to our podcast on
this beautiful Saturday morning.
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Um, uh, we're delighted
to have you with us.
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Uh, so good morning to you.
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Jesse, do you have any,
any questions to ask?
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You know, along those lines right
there, how do you, if you can articulate
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it, how do you balance, uh, your own
marriage with the marriage ministry?
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How do we balance it?
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Whoa.
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I would say this.
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So, we bought this for a long time
because, you know, we were like,
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you know, we're, we have our issues,
you know, we're going through our
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stuff to the point where we, my wife
literally gave pastor divorce papers.
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And she was like, you hold us.
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Because if we decide to, to
cross, you know, that line.
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We, we, we, we were, we were cautious
and we didn't, we, we knew we
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separately, we didn't want to Mm-Hmm.
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. We, we, our hearts, we, we didn't
want to divorce, but we had, again,
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not communicated to each other.
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So, and for years we've gone through
all the marriage ministry classes and
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courses and stuff at church and whatnot.
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But like the saying goes, it's a toolbox.
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Right.
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And if you don't use, if you don't
use the tools, it doesn't help you.
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Right.
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It doesn't, the tools aren't
good being shiny in the box.
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Right.
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So that's what we did for years.
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And when we talked to pastor
the last time, we're like,
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okay, we're going to try this.
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Marriage counseling one more time and
this time really put an effort because
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we knew we were kind of half doing it.
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Right.
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Okay.
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Some, some of the lessons, not some
of the lessons, you know, complete
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some of the programs, not complete
some of the program we said, let's
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give this a concerned effort.
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And if it doesn't work, at
least we, we gave it a, a 1.
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Good for all.
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Right.
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Right.
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And, but this time we took it
seriously and it worked because
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of course, we put the work in.
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Okay.
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Right.
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Um, so I would say, and to that point,
that's why we ran from it for some
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years because the pastor kept telling
us, he's like, you guys are destined
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to, you know, Speak to other couples
and we're like, Uhuh, , like, no.
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They said, we don't wanna do that,
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because we had all of the,
the quote unquote Christian
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things in our mind, right?
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Understood.
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We don't have Bible verse memory,
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we don't want people talking about it.
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Understood all that stuff.
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And over the years he kept saying
it to us, kept saying it to
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us, kept saying it to us, and.
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Or, and then at one point he
was like, um, he said, I'm gonna
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be transparent with you guys.
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There are couples that look at you guys
and bring you guys up in conversation.
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Mm-Hmm.
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. Um, and we're like,
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yeah,
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.
Nah,
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not us.
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Like they only knew, you
know, he was like, no.
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And he said to that point,
everyone thinks their situation
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is worse than everyone else.
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Yes, that's
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true.
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That's true.
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That's true.
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So, so we fought for a long time,
and surprisingly during Covid.
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We had actually started a zoom like
group where we were talking with
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different couples and just sharing
different, you know, talking about
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different topics and stuff like that.
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And people started just coming to
us with calling us or whatever.
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And we're like, what's going on?
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Why are all these couples, you know,
reaching out to us and this and that?
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And we're like, we think God's
really pushing us to do this
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and stop running from it.
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And so then, um, when, um, sister Francis,
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I had approached sister Francis,
actually talking to her and sharing
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with her that I, I really feel that
the marriage ministry needs to really,
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Focus on our, our young couples and
our couple, our age group, um, because
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they, you know, feel like they really
don't have anyone that they can really
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talk to at church because the parents
is you're supposed to just do this.
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Right.
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You're supposed to just act this way.
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Right.
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And that's that.
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Right.
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And there are certain things
you just can't discuss.
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Or you just pray and everything
will magically, you know,
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resolve all those issues.
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So in that, we started really saying,
you know, let's follow, you know, what
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we believe to be the Holy Spirit guiding
us and leading us and, and just jump
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in, you know, put our foot in the water.
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And it's, it's been, it's not
sometimes that we want to do more, but.
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You know, family lives and different
with other, um, responsibilities have
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kind of hindered us at times, but no,
as much as we can do, we want to do.
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At this point.
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Well, you know, let me share
with you my perspective.
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Now, this is the first time you
and the two of you and I have
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talked about any of this ever.
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Um, but I can tell you what I've, what my
perspective is just over the last hour.
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You are very good at this and
the reason is you are honest,
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you're upfront and you're open.
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And I can tell you, one can use all
the words and read all the books
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and quote all the this and that, but
again, going back to Maya Angelou,
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how do you make the people feel?
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And so I can tell you how you make
me feel, and I said, well, you know,
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I'd be comfortable talking to them or
telling them, you know, if I'm worried
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about this or worried about that.
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And that's what you want.
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That, that's, that's student teacher.
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You know, if you want, if you're
trying to help that student or those
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folks, they've got to trust you.
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And they're going to make that
decision very quickly, I guarantee you.
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And they're, they're either
listening or not listening.
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I've been listening because I've learned
to trust you on this particular subject.
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And I, I believe everything
you've told me, and it's a
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lot of what I've experienced.
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So I know that what
you're telling me is true.
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So my point is, you have an asset.
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I do believe that this
is, this is your ministry.
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I do believe that this is your mission.
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I don't understand it, but I'm
not supposed to understand it.
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You know, this, this.
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And I would suggest, and this
is just my own experience, don't
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worry about all those people
who are holy all the time, 24 7.
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You know, God bless them.
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I am not one of them.
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Um, and when I read my Bible, what
I've learned, that Christ, He picks
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those folks who are not 100 percent
holy 100 percent of the time.
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He picks people who go through
stuff, who have issues, who've
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been up, who've been down.
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And I don't think that's intentional.
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I think that, I mean, I don't
think that's accidental.
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I think that's with intentionality
because he says, I want somebody
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who knows what they're talking about
because I think when you get up and
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you talk before people or whatever,
they can tell if you're real or not.
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You know what I mean?
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And they can say, nah.
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I'm not feeling it.
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I'm sorry.
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I'm not feeling it.
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But on the other hand, they
say, yeah, I've been there.
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I know exactly what you're talking about.
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I knew it.
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I said, I'm going to listen because I
want to know how you got to where you are
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because I'm not quite where you are yet.
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So just, just one vote.
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I'm just one person.
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My, my vote is continue
to do what you're doing.
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Because I do believe this is your
mission because I can feel it.
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I can feel it.
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And I bet you that of the thousands
of people who are listening on the
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podcast, uh, they feel it also.
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I, I think this is good work on your part.
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However long God has you doing it.
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Uh, I think follow that.
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Best way to learn is to teach,
you know, the way you strengthen
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yourselves is teaching others.
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So there's win win all,
all, all the way down here.
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Uh, but I, I, I can see this
as, as one of your ministries.
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And I second all of
that that he said there.
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That's for sure.
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Uh, and, and one final follow up
question, uh, if I may, uh, what are
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your future goals for the ministry?
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Hmm.
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So, again, so like my wife said, wanting
to kind of bring that, that bridge,
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that gap between the older couple and
the young couples and having that safe
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space, but doing it in different forms.
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So like I said, in the past, when we were
doing the marriage ministry classes, when
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we were participating in it, it was, you
know, we came down to church, sat in a
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room, opened the book, read the lessons,
answer the questions, do the homework,
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come back, you know, stuff like that.
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Um, now we want to change that around a
little bit, you know, yes, of course, use
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the different lessons and the different
books and stuff like that to gain some,
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um, knowledge of different things.
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But also have different settings.
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So whether it is at someone's home
and, you know, kind of potluck and
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kind of more casual, free flowing.
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Mm-Hmm.
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situation.
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Mm-Hmm.
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where people can feel uncomfortable.
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Mm-Hmm.
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and talking or maybe going out
to a restaurant or, or then
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again, having a class at church.
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Um, just recently we
did a game, a game day.
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Okay.
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When we, the town.
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The town hall?
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Yeah, the town hall.
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We had games and stuff like that.
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And it was fun, you know, so
just exploring a lot more avenues
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because one of the things that I've
learned as an educator is everyone
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learns in different ways, right?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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So, so even though some might
gain what they need in a
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classroom setting, others may not.
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So, so just doing different things
to kind of help, um, as many
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couples as we can be comfortable.
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Encouraging
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them to give their input also, where
they feel more involved in being heard.
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Right.
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Exactly.
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Rather than just being talked to.
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Right.
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What I would suggest to you is
give yourself permission to fail.
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You're leaders.
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Both of you.
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You're leaders.
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And leadership means
that you jump out front.
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You don't know what's going to happen.
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Not really.
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You, it may all fail and people say, ah,
I don't get this, whatever, whatever.
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But do it again.
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Keep trying.
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Try different things.
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That's what leadership is.
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Leadership says, you know,
I am committed to doing X.
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Whether it's a podcast.
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That's what the 76 year old, you know,
blah, blah, blah, or, or, or helping
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with, uh, with the marriage ministry.
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You have been put in my judgment, you have
been put in this position for a reason.
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I don't know what the reason
is, but I think God does.
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And I don't think it's accidental.
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Give yourself permission to fail.
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And when you do fail, look at each other,
hug each other and says, okay, let's do
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it again and again and again and again.
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And eventually you will break through.
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You will break through, and then
you will teach others, and they
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will follow in your footsteps.
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But I, I would say, God bless you.
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I think, I think you're
on a terrific journey.
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And I'm just excited to see
what the future's gonna hold.
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Uh, in terms of what, what,
what you're gonna create.
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You know, it's, it's funny
that, that you said a couple
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times, and Jesse said it too.
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Where as you're teaching in your mind,
you're helping someone else, right?
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Or you're teaching someone else something.
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And I've found that it places
an accountability on myself.
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Because while I'm saying it,
sometimes in my mind, I'm
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like, okay, are you doing that?
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Or, you know, you just, you weren't doing
this, you know, two days ago or whatever.
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So it helps me.
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Be accountable for what
I'm, what I'm giving out.
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Right.
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We're learning.
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The best way to learn is to teach.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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So it's win win.
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It's win win.
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You know, God, God has a purpose
and you're part of his purpose.
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And I think you were selected specifically
because of what you've been through.
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Not in spite of it.
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Specifically, because you
can speak from the heart.
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Again, most of the times you, you go to
groups, you can tell who's sort of trying
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to shine you on or trying to impress
you and all of a sudden, and you said,
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no, no, no, I'm not, I'm not getting it.
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I'm not feeling it.
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But as I heard you talk, I felt
it, I felt, I got it, I got it.
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So, so my point is, is, is genuine,
is genuine and, and I think, uh,
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the way people make me feel the
way they make other people feel.
287
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You know, I think I think because I
think it's real and that's what works.
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The phony stuff does not work I don't
care who you are how smart you are,
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you know, how many degrees you have
doesn't matter doesn't work doesn't work
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00:13:29,210 --> 00:13:34,669
Well, I want to be respectful of your
time I know this is saturday morning
291
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:39,870
Thank you so much for taking time
out of your schedule and sharing your
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00:13:39,870 --> 00:13:44,620
beliefs and your thoughts and and that
sort of thing You know god bless you.
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I I think they're just gonna be Um,
and I'm going to be talking about a
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lot of great things that are going to
happen and I'm going to enjoy watching.
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Feel free to come back at any time.
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You know, if there's for whatever reason,
I, you know, um, uh, that if you said,
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you know, we want to talk about so and
so and tell people, feel free to do that.
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Just, just let us know.
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Just let us know.
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We will all, this door
is always open for you.
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Um, we're approaching a hundred
thousand downloads around the world.
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Um, this is, uh, you will be
our 94th episode, 94th guest.
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We're approaching 100, uh, and so this
goes all over the world, not just U.
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S.
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and not just California.
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00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,090
And who knows who, who your church,
you may never see them or meet them,
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00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,809
but they've said, you know, I listened
to this podcast and it's very nice
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00:14:30,809 --> 00:14:33,039
couple, couple, and they were talking
about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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00:14:33,229 --> 00:14:34,200
Why don't we try that?
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00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:40,249
You never know how God uses us, how God
uses us to help other people because
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that's really what it's all about.
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Well, I want to be
respectful of your time.
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I know this is Saturday morning.
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00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,770
Thank you so much for taking time out of
your schedule and sharing your beliefs and
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00:14:53,770 --> 00:14:55,890
your thoughts and, and that sort of thing.
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00:14:55,890 --> 00:14:57,910
You know, God bless you.
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I, I think that they're just going
to be great things that are going to
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00:15:01,189 --> 00:15:03,219
happen and I'm going to enjoy watching.
319
00:15:03,539 --> 00:15:07,479
Feel free to come back at any time, you
know, if there's, for whatever reason,
320
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,620
I, you know, um, uh, that if you said,
you know, we want to talk about so and
321
00:15:11,620 --> 00:15:13,839
so and tell people, feel free to do that.
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00:15:13,839 --> 00:15:15,199
Just, just let us know.
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00:15:15,469 --> 00:15:16,219
Just let us know.
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00:15:16,229 --> 00:15:19,370
We want This door is always open for you.
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00:15:19,699 --> 00:15:23,930
Um, we're approaching a hundred
thousand downloads around the world.
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00:15:24,290 --> 00:15:30,120
Um, this is, uh, you will be
our 94th episode, 94th podcast.
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We're approaching a hundred.
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Uh, and so this goes all over the world,
not just us and not just California
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and who knows who you're a church.
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You may never see them or meet them,
but they would say, you know, I listened
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to this podcast and it's very nice.
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00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,219
Cosmo couple.
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They were talking about blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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Why don't we try that?
335
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:53,530
You never know how God uses us, how God
uses us to help other people because
336
00:15:53,530 --> 00:15:54,969
that, that's really what it's all about.
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00:15:55,510 --> 00:15:58,129
Thank you for listening to this
episode of the Healthy, Wealthy,
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00:15:58,130 --> 00:16:00,180
and Wise podcast with Dr.
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00:16:00,190 --> 00:16:00,829
William T.
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00:16:00,849 --> 00:16:03,380
Choctaw, MD, JD.
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00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:06,930
Be sure to check out other great
episodes covering areas of health,
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00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:11,500
wealth, and wisdom at thwwp.
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00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:12,000
com.
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00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:14,720
And while you're there, be
sure to check out the books,
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00:16:14,770 --> 00:16:16,480
blogs, and other literature.
346
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:18,050
In your preferred format.
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00:16:18,460 --> 00:16:23,590
And don't forget to leave a review,
subscribe, share, and support the podcast.
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00:16:23,930 --> 00:16:25,080
That's at THWWP.
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00:16:26,730 --> 00:16:27,270
com.
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00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:31,580
You've been listening to the Healthy,
Wealthy, and Wise podcast with Dr.
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00:16:31,580 --> 00:16:32,120
William T.
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00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,759
Choctaw, MD, JD.
00:00:00,890 --> 00:00:04,990
Coming up on this episode of the
Healthy, Wealthy Wise podcast.
2
00:00:05,520 --> 00:00:08,220
Well, you know, let me share
with you my perspective.
3
00:00:08,299 --> 00:00:11,780
Now, this is the first time you
and the two of you and I have
4
00:00:11,790 --> 00:00:13,750
talked about any of this ever.
5
00:00:14,890 --> 00:00:19,459
But I can tell you what my perspective
is just over the last hour.
6
00:00:20,630 --> 00:00:23,270
Welcome to the Healthy,
Wealthy Wise podcast with Dr.
7
00:00:23,270 --> 00:00:23,739
William T.
8
00:00:23,739 --> 00:00:27,630
Choctaw, MD, JD, where the
doctor helps you unlock your
9
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,710
full potential by equipping you
with the tools and knowledge.
10
00:00:30,820 --> 00:00:35,680
Knowledge in the areas of health, wealth,
and wisdom anchored in his experience
11
00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,730
as a business executive, a physician
surveyor for the joint commission,
12
00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,770
a former mayor, and over 50 years
of experience as a general surgeon.
13
00:00:45,310 --> 00:00:47,470
You've got questions, he's got answers.
14
00:00:47,830 --> 00:00:48,760
So let's get started.
15
00:00:49,420 --> 00:00:49,990
Here's Dr.
16
00:00:49,990 --> 00:00:51,130
William t Choctaw.
17
00:00:51,430 --> 00:00:53,170
MDJD.
18
00:00:54,170 --> 00:00:57,800
Well, we're very, very happy,
uh, to welcome the Sucrum
19
00:00:57,830 --> 00:01:02,250
family, uh, to our podcast on
this beautiful Saturday morning.
20
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,759
Um, uh, we're delighted
to have you with us.
21
00:01:06,009 --> 00:01:07,539
Uh, so good morning to you.
22
00:01:08,149 --> 00:01:10,360
Jesse, do you have any,
any questions to ask?
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00:01:10,499 --> 00:01:15,610
You know, along those lines right
there, how do you, if you can articulate
24
00:01:15,610 --> 00:01:20,300
it, how do you balance, uh, your own
marriage with the marriage ministry?
25
00:01:20,499 --> 00:01:21,220
How do we balance it?
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00:01:21,220 --> 00:01:21,240
Whoa.
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I would say this.
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So, we bought this for a long time
because, you know, we were like,
29
00:01:29,540 --> 00:01:33,150
you know, we're, we have our issues,
you know, we're going through our
30
00:01:33,150 --> 00:01:39,039
stuff to the point where we, my wife
literally gave pastor divorce papers.
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And she was like, you hold us.
32
00:01:42,330 --> 00:01:47,539
Because if we decide to, to
cross, you know, that line.
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00:01:48,285 --> 00:01:52,170
We, we, we, we were, we were cautious
and we didn't, we, we knew we
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00:01:52,470 --> 00:01:54,425
separately, we didn't want to Mm-Hmm.
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00:01:54,505 --> 00:01:58,520
. We, we, our hearts, we, we didn't
want to divorce, but we had, again,
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00:01:58,700 --> 00:02:00,080
not communicated to each other.
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00:02:00,650 --> 00:02:04,280
So, and for years we've gone through
all the marriage ministry classes and
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00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:05,645
courses and stuff at church and whatnot.
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00:02:06,355 --> 00:02:09,104
But like the saying goes, it's a toolbox.
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00:02:09,125 --> 00:02:09,375
Right.
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And if you don't use, if you don't
use the tools, it doesn't help you.
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00:02:13,174 --> 00:02:13,454
Right.
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It doesn't, the tools aren't
good being shiny in the box.
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Right.
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00:02:17,205 --> 00:02:19,815
So that's what we did for years.
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And when we talked to pastor
the last time, we're like,
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okay, we're going to try this.
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00:02:26,065 --> 00:02:29,825
Marriage counseling one more time and
this time really put an effort because
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we knew we were kind of half doing it.
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Right.
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00:02:32,865 --> 00:02:33,185
Okay.
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Some, some of the lessons, not some
of the lessons, you know, complete
53
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some of the programs, not complete
some of the program we said, let's
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give this a concerned effort.
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And if it doesn't work, at
least we, we gave it a, a 1.
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Good for all.
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Right.
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Right.
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00:02:46,325 --> 00:02:50,795
And, but this time we took it
seriously and it worked because
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of course, we put the work in.
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Okay.
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Right.
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Um, so I would say, and to that point,
that's why we ran from it for some
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years because the pastor kept telling
us, he's like, you guys are destined
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to, you know, Speak to other couples
and we're like, Uhuh, , like, no.
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They said, we don't wanna do that,
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because we had all of the,
the quote unquote Christian
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things in our mind, right?
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Understood.
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We don't have Bible verse memory,
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we don't want people talking about it.
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Understood all that stuff.
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And over the years he kept saying
it to us, kept saying it to
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us, kept saying it to us, and.
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Or, and then at one point he
was like, um, he said, I'm gonna
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be transparent with you guys.
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There are couples that look at you guys
and bring you guys up in conversation.
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Mm-Hmm.
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. Um, and we're like,
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yeah,
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.
Nah,
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not us.
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Like they only knew, you
know, he was like, no.
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00:03:49,885 --> 00:03:52,945
And he said to that point,
everyone thinks their situation
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is worse than everyone else.
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00:03:54,415 --> 00:03:54,625
Yes, that's
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00:03:54,625 --> 00:03:54,954
true.
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00:03:55,135 --> 00:03:55,584
That's true.
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00:03:56,155 --> 00:03:56,605
That's true.
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00:03:56,649 --> 00:04:01,054
So, so we fought for a long time,
and surprisingly during Covid.
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00:04:02,349 --> 00:04:07,069
We had actually started a zoom like
group where we were talking with
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different couples and just sharing
different, you know, talking about
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different topics and stuff like that.
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And people started just coming to
us with calling us or whatever.
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And we're like, what's going on?
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Why are all these couples, you know,
reaching out to us and this and that?
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00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:28,400
And we're like, we think God's
really pushing us to do this
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and stop running from it.
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And so then, um, when, um, sister Francis,
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I had approached sister Francis,
actually talking to her and sharing
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with her that I, I really feel that
the marriage ministry needs to really,
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Focus on our, our young couples and
our couple, our age group, um, because
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they, you know, feel like they really
don't have anyone that they can really
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talk to at church because the parents
is you're supposed to just do this.
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Right.
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You're supposed to just act this way.
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Right.
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And that's that.
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Right.
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And there are certain things
you just can't discuss.
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Or you just pray and everything
will magically, you know,
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resolve all those issues.
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So in that, we started really saying,
you know, let's follow, you know, what
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we believe to be the Holy Spirit guiding
us and leading us and, and just jump
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in, you know, put our foot in the water.
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And it's, it's been, it's not
sometimes that we want to do more, but.
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You know, family lives and different
with other, um, responsibilities have
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00:05:41,599 --> 00:05:46,889
kind of hindered us at times, but no,
as much as we can do, we want to do.
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At this point.
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00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,840
Well, you know, let me share
with you my perspective.
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00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,340
Now, this is the first time you
and the two of you and I have
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00:05:54,370 --> 00:05:56,330
talked about any of this ever.
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Um, but I can tell you what I've, what my
perspective is just over the last hour.
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You are very good at this and
the reason is you are honest,
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you're upfront and you're open.
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And I can tell you, one can use all
the words and read all the books
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and quote all the this and that, but
again, going back to Maya Angelou,
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how do you make the people feel?
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And so I can tell you how you make
me feel, and I said, well, you know,
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I'd be comfortable talking to them or
telling them, you know, if I'm worried
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about this or worried about that.
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And that's what you want.
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That, that's, that's student teacher.
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You know, if you want, if you're
trying to help that student or those
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folks, they've got to trust you.
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And they're going to make that
decision very quickly, I guarantee you.
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And they're, they're either
listening or not listening.
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I've been listening because I've learned
to trust you on this particular subject.
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And I, I believe everything
you've told me, and it's a
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lot of what I've experienced.
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So I know that what
you're telling me is true.
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So my point is, you have an asset.
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I do believe that this
is, this is your ministry.
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I do believe that this is your mission.
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I don't understand it, but I'm
not supposed to understand it.
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You know, this, this.
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And I would suggest, and this
is just my own experience, don't
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worry about all those people
who are holy all the time, 24 7.
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You know, God bless them.
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I am not one of them.
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Um, and when I read my Bible, what
I've learned, that Christ, He picks
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those folks who are not 100 percent
holy 100 percent of the time.
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He picks people who go through
stuff, who have issues, who've
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been up, who've been down.
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And I don't think that's intentional.
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I think that, I mean, I don't
think that's accidental.
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I think that's with intentionality
because he says, I want somebody
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who knows what they're talking about
because I think when you get up and
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you talk before people or whatever,
they can tell if you're real or not.
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You know what I mean?
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And they can say, nah.
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I'm not feeling it.
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I'm sorry.
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I'm not feeling it.
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But on the other hand, they
say, yeah, I've been there.
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I know exactly what you're talking about.
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I knew it.
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I said, I'm going to listen because I
want to know how you got to where you are
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because I'm not quite where you are yet.
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So just, just one vote.
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I'm just one person.
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My, my vote is continue
to do what you're doing.
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Because I do believe this is your
mission because I can feel it.
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I can feel it.
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And I bet you that of the thousands
of people who are listening on the
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podcast, uh, they feel it also.
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I, I think this is good work on your part.
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However long God has you doing it.
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Uh, I think follow that.
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Best way to learn is to teach,
you know, the way you strengthen
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yourselves is teaching others.
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So there's win win all,
all, all the way down here.
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Uh, but I, I, I can see this
as, as one of your ministries.
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And I second all of
that that he said there.
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That's for sure.
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Uh, and, and one final follow up
question, uh, if I may, uh, what are
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your future goals for the ministry?
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Hmm.
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So, again, so like my wife said, wanting
to kind of bring that, that bridge,
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that gap between the older couple and
the young couples and having that safe
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space, but doing it in different forms.
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So like I said, in the past, when we were
doing the marriage ministry classes, when
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we were participating in it, it was, you
know, we came down to church, sat in a
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room, opened the book, read the lessons,
answer the questions, do the homework,
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come back, you know, stuff like that.
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Um, now we want to change that around a
little bit, you know, yes, of course, use
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the different lessons and the different
books and stuff like that to gain some,
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um, knowledge of different things.
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But also have different settings.
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So whether it is at someone's home
and, you know, kind of potluck and
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kind of more casual, free flowing.
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Mm-Hmm.
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situation.
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Mm-Hmm.
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where people can feel uncomfortable.
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Mm-Hmm.
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and talking or maybe going out
to a restaurant or, or then
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again, having a class at church.
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Um, just recently we
did a game, a game day.
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Okay.
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When we, the town.
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The town hall?
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Yeah, the town hall.
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00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,430
We had games and stuff like that.
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And it was fun, you know, so
just exploring a lot more avenues
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because one of the things that I've
learned as an educator is everyone
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learns in different ways, right?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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So, so even though some might
gain what they need in a
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classroom setting, others may not.
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So, so just doing different things
to kind of help, um, as many
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couples as we can be comfortable.
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Encouraging
225
00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:45,430
them to give their input also, where
they feel more involved in being heard.
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00:10:45,450 --> 00:10:46,509
Right.
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Exactly.
228
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Rather than just being talked to.
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00:10:48,829 --> 00:10:49,140
Right.
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What I would suggest to you is
give yourself permission to fail.
231
00:10:53,020 --> 00:10:53,770
You're leaders.
232
00:10:54,100 --> 00:10:54,560
Both of you.
233
00:10:54,569 --> 00:10:55,240
You're leaders.
234
00:10:55,490 --> 00:10:58,020
And leadership means
that you jump out front.
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00:10:58,419 --> 00:11:00,260
You don't know what's going to happen.
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Not really.
237
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,360
You, it may all fail and people say, ah,
I don't get this, whatever, whatever.
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00:11:05,579 --> 00:11:06,750
But do it again.
239
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:07,589
Keep trying.
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Try different things.
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00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:09,949
That's what leadership is.
242
00:11:09,970 --> 00:11:13,800
Leadership says, you know,
I am committed to doing X.
243
00:11:14,510 --> 00:11:15,390
Whether it's a podcast.
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00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,890
That's what the 76 year old, you know,
blah, blah, blah, or, or, or helping
245
00:11:20,890 --> 00:11:22,920
with, uh, with the marriage ministry.
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You have been put in my judgment, you have
been put in this position for a reason.
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00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,129
I don't know what the reason
is, but I think God does.
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00:11:30,129 --> 00:11:31,469
And I don't think it's accidental.
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00:11:31,729 --> 00:11:33,339
Give yourself permission to fail.
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00:11:33,339 --> 00:11:37,530
And when you do fail, look at each other,
hug each other and says, okay, let's do
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it again and again and again and again.
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00:11:40,780 --> 00:11:42,510
And eventually you will break through.
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You will break through, and then
you will teach others, and they
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will follow in your footsteps.
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But I, I would say, God bless you.
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I think, I think you're
on a terrific journey.
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And I'm just excited to see
what the future's gonna hold.
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Uh, in terms of what, what,
what you're gonna create.
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00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,410
You know, it's, it's funny
that, that you said a couple
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times, and Jesse said it too.
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Where as you're teaching in your mind,
you're helping someone else, right?
262
00:12:10,214 --> 00:12:11,865
Or you're teaching someone else something.
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00:12:12,355 --> 00:12:16,775
And I've found that it places
an accountability on myself.
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00:12:17,145 --> 00:12:19,374
Because while I'm saying it,
sometimes in my mind, I'm
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like, okay, are you doing that?
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Or, you know, you just, you weren't doing
this, you know, two days ago or whatever.
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So it helps me.
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Be accountable for what
I'm, what I'm giving out.
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Right.
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We're learning.
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The best way to learn is to teach.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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So it's win win.
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It's win win.
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00:12:38,015 --> 00:12:41,615
You know, God, God has a purpose
and you're part of his purpose.
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And I think you were selected specifically
because of what you've been through.
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00:12:46,845 --> 00:12:47,855
Not in spite of it.
279
00:12:48,130 --> 00:12:51,819
Specifically, because you
can speak from the heart.
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00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:56,639
Again, most of the times you, you go to
groups, you can tell who's sort of trying
281
00:12:56,639 --> 00:12:59,910
to shine you on or trying to impress
you and all of a sudden, and you said,
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00:12:59,910 --> 00:13:01,770
no, no, no, I'm not, I'm not getting it.
283
00:13:01,770 --> 00:13:02,739
I'm not feeling it.
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00:13:03,589 --> 00:13:08,530
But as I heard you talk, I felt
it, I felt, I got it, I got it.
285
00:13:08,740 --> 00:13:13,260
So, so my point is, is, is genuine,
is genuine and, and I think, uh,
286
00:13:13,490 --> 00:13:16,240
the way people make me feel the
way they make other people feel.
287
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,210
You know, I think I think because I
think it's real and that's what works.
288
00:13:20,460 --> 00:13:24,720
The phony stuff does not work I don't
care who you are how smart you are,
289
00:13:25,010 --> 00:13:28,069
you know, how many degrees you have
doesn't matter doesn't work doesn't work
290
00:13:29,210 --> 00:13:34,669
Well, I want to be respectful of your
time I know this is saturday morning
291
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:39,870
Thank you so much for taking time
out of your schedule and sharing your
292
00:13:39,870 --> 00:13:44,620
beliefs and your thoughts and and that
sort of thing You know god bless you.
293
00:13:44,620 --> 00:13:47,129
I I think they're just gonna be Um,
and I'm going to be talking about a
294
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lot of great things that are going to
happen and I'm going to enjoy watching.
295
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:52,110
Feel free to come back at any time.
296
00:13:52,130 --> 00:13:56,860
You know, if there's for whatever reason,
I, you know, um, uh, that if you said,
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00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,530
you know, we want to talk about so and
so and tell people, feel free to do that.
298
00:14:00,530 --> 00:14:01,900
Just, just let us know.
299
00:14:02,179 --> 00:14:02,950
Just let us know.
300
00:14:02,979 --> 00:14:06,080
We will all, this door
is always open for you.
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00:14:06,410 --> 00:14:10,640
Um, we're approaching a hundred
thousand downloads around the world.
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00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:16,339
Um, this is, uh, you will be
our 94th episode, 94th guest.
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We're approaching 100, uh, and so this
goes all over the world, not just U.
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00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:22,810
S.
305
00:14:22,810 --> 00:14:23,960
and not just California.
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00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,090
And who knows who, who your church,
you may never see them or meet them,
307
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,809
but they've said, you know, I listened
to this podcast and it's very nice
308
00:14:30,809 --> 00:14:33,039
couple, couple, and they were talking
about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
309
00:14:33,229 --> 00:14:34,200
Why don't we try that?
310
00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:40,249
You never know how God uses us, how God
uses us to help other people because
311
00:14:40,479 --> 00:14:41,760
that's really what it's all about.
312
00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:45,010
Well, I want to be
respectful of your time.
313
00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:47,959
I know this is Saturday morning.
314
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,770
Thank you so much for taking time out of
your schedule and sharing your beliefs and
315
00:14:53,770 --> 00:14:55,890
your thoughts and, and that sort of thing.
316
00:14:55,890 --> 00:14:57,910
You know, God bless you.
317
00:14:58,150 --> 00:15:01,180
I, I think that they're just going
to be great things that are going to
318
00:15:01,189 --> 00:15:03,219
happen and I'm going to enjoy watching.
319
00:15:03,539 --> 00:15:07,479
Feel free to come back at any time, you
know, if there's, for whatever reason,
320
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,620
I, you know, um, uh, that if you said,
you know, we want to talk about so and
321
00:15:11,620 --> 00:15:13,839
so and tell people, feel free to do that.
322
00:15:13,839 --> 00:15:15,199
Just, just let us know.
323
00:15:15,469 --> 00:15:16,219
Just let us know.
324
00:15:16,229 --> 00:15:19,370
We want This door is always open for you.
325
00:15:19,699 --> 00:15:23,930
Um, we're approaching a hundred
thousand downloads around the world.
326
00:15:24,290 --> 00:15:30,120
Um, this is, uh, you will be
our 94th episode, 94th podcast.
327
00:15:30,479 --> 00:15:31,750
We're approaching a hundred.
328
00:15:32,079 --> 00:15:37,240
Uh, and so this goes all over the world,
not just us and not just California
329
00:15:37,410 --> 00:15:39,420
and who knows who you're a church.
330
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:42,680
You may never see them or meet them,
but they would say, you know, I listened
331
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,079
to this podcast and it's very nice.
332
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,219
Cosmo couple.
333
00:15:45,260 --> 00:15:46,419
They were talking about blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
334
00:15:46,569 --> 00:15:47,490
Why don't we try that?
335
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:53,530
You never know how God uses us, how God
uses us to help other people because
336
00:15:53,530 --> 00:15:54,969
that, that's really what it's all about.
337
00:15:55,510 --> 00:15:58,129
Thank you for listening to this
episode of the Healthy, Wealthy,
338
00:15:58,130 --> 00:16:00,180
and Wise podcast with Dr.
339
00:16:00,190 --> 00:16:00,829
William T.
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00:16:00,849 --> 00:16:03,380
Choctaw, MD, JD.
341
00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:06,930
Be sure to check out other great
episodes covering areas of health,
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00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:11,500
wealth, and wisdom at thwwp.
343
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:12,000
com.
344
00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:14,720
And while you're there, be
sure to check out the books,
345
00:16:14,770 --> 00:16:16,480
blogs, and other literature.
346
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:18,050
In your preferred format.
347
00:16:18,460 --> 00:16:23,590
And don't forget to leave a review,
subscribe, share, and support the podcast.
348
00:16:23,930 --> 00:16:25,080
That's at THWWP.
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00:16:26,730 --> 00:16:27,270
com.
350
00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:31,580
You've been listening to the Healthy,
Wealthy, and Wise podcast with Dr.
351
00:16:31,580 --> 00:16:32,120
William T.
352
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,759
Choctaw, MD, JD.
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