July 2, 2024
The Sookram Family's Secret to a Thriving Christian Marriage
In this episode, we sit down with Gary and Tonji Sookram, leaders of the marriage ministry at Saint Stephen's, to discuss their journey to building a strong and lasting Christian marriage. They share their personal experiences, insights on premarital counseling, conflict resolution, and the importance of mutual respect and understanding. The Sookram's also reveal their "hybrid" approach to finances and their old-school views on disciplining children.
Transcript
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Well, we're very, very happy,
uh, to welcome the Sucrum
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family, uh, to our podcast on
this beautiful Saturday morning.
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Um, uh, we're delighted
to have you with us.
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Uh, so good morning to you.
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Good morning.
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Good morning.
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Very good.
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Now, I want to let you know
that in the year and a half that
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we've had these podcasts, you're
making history, uh, because we've
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never had a club along before.
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Okay.
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So, so we're, we're, we're, we're going
off into uncharted territory with that.
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So,
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so years from now, years from now, they'll
say, who was the first couple was on
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the Healthy, Wealthy, and Wise podcast?
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And so that, that, that,
that'll be you guys.
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But, but we certainly want to thank you
again, though, for, for being with us.
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We know that weekends
are particularly busy.
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Um, and we really thank
you for sharing your time.
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Uh, with us, uh, uh, this morning.
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So very good.
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So, so, so tell me about yourself.
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Oh, so, uh, born and raised
in Trinidad and Tobago.
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Came to America in the late eighties.
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My mom was already living here.
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So my brother and I were asked if
we wanted to join our mom here.
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And we, of course we said, yes.
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Uh, moved to Houston, Texas, uh, about a
year and a half later came to California.
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My mom married, we came out to California,
um, became a preschool teacher.
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And some years after that met my
wife in 97, uh, she, she had two,
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two girls, uh, two and a half and.
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About five.
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Okay.
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Oldest one in history with me.
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Okay.
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Tanya, tell us about you.
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Well, I'm, I'm originally from Chicago.
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Um, I've, Live different places
here and there with my parents.
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And then I moved on my own and lived
a few different places like Wisconsin.
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Um, I ended up, um, coming to, um,
went to Kentucky and then I went
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back to Chicago for a little bit.
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And then my mom and dad were
already out here in California,
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Uhhuh , and they convinced me
to move, um, out, back out here.
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So we, we, we were known as the, as the
black gypsies of the family , because
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we were always moving with dad's job.
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And, you know, it was funny.
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But, um, I came out here in 96
and you know, like my husband
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said, we met in 97 and I was a
single mom, two little girls, and.
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We've been together ever since and
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the rest is history
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field.
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I, I've, um, been a CNA over the years,
um, was, um, trying to look into nursing
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and it's different, different things I've
been trying to, trying to do, trying to.
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I have to find my way.
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Okay.
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Where where the lord wants me to to go.
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Okay.
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Well, one of the things that I have
heard that that both you and Gar are
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involved with the marriage ministry
at Saint Stephen's tell me about tell
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me what is the marriage ministry and
and what what what do you guys do?
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So, just um so the marriage prior to
covid was a A pretty strong ministry,
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you know, we had different classes
at church and different events, but
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during it, of course, you know, died
down and we're trying to revive it.
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Now.
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We're not trying to, we are reviving it.
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Now, I'm still currently
we're attempting to.
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Put a little different spin on it.
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Do a lot of more activities with
couples together, interacting
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together and of course, doing some
sessions on zoom and different things.
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So we're exploring different avenues just
to try and get the couples active again,
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exploring all the issues in marriages
and just trying to help each other.
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Maintain a healthy, uh, Christian marriage
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and Reverend Sister Francis, um,
have taken us under their wing and,
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and they were working with us and,
you know, also learning from them.
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Also,
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okay.
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Okay.
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So if a couple is thinking about whether
they should come to your sessions or
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join the ministry or not, what, what,
what, uh, what, what should they know
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that it's a safe space?
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Um, you know, we're, we're
very open, honest, of course.
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Um, everything comes from a biblical
standpoint, but, um, a term,
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uh, Pastor Dockery often uses is
where the rubber meets the road.
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So, so we're, we're approaching things
in that standpoint of where, where
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does our biblical standpoints in
marriage meet our day to day living?
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How do we, how do we work that out?
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Okay,
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so if, if someone were to say,
well, what, what is the biblical
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status or principle for marriage?
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Let's say I'm, um, a couple is going
to get married and they want to make
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sure that we do it the right way and,
and that everything is done correctly.
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Um, uh, what, what advice would
you give them before they even
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come to interview sessions?
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All the time.
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I would, for me, I would definitely
encourage premarital counseling,
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um, with, with pastor Dockery.
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Okay.
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Um, be able to sit down with him,
lay all the cards out on the table,
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what, you know, your expectations.
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Are in a marriage, what your
concerns are, what each other's
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views are on, you know, if you plan
on having children, but you're, um,
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disciplining strategies are your, um,
everything, yeah, everything finances.
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It is very important to do
that step 1st, as far as with
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premarital counseling to make sure.
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All the, what all the ducks are in a
row, as they say, so you're not going
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in to the marriage blind and having
all kinds of surprises and, you know,
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feeling like, oh, no, I didn't know this,
or I wish I would have known that, or
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I wish I would have, or we would have
talked about, you know, how we felt
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and what we expected from each other.
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In, in, um, you know, the marriage
or, you know, what we want in our
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relationship, um, it's very important
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as far as the marriage ministry
itself, there is no prerequisite
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for
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joining the ministry or, or, uh, becoming,
uh, getting involved, getting involved.
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Okay.
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Is, is there a recommended, and
I'm just, just thinking of stuff
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off the top of my head now.
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Should, should all marriage couples
have joint bank accounts or can
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they have separate bank accounts?
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Well, we believe in
both, a hybrid of both.
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So, so, so with us, we've, um, for some
years now, we have our main account that
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is, that is a joint account together.
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Okay.
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But then we also have a separate.
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Uh, spending account or allowance
account, um, for each other.
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So it kind of gives a little bit of,
uh, both worlds where you, you have a
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little bit of independence, but at the
same token, you have the, the, um, the
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base of the, of the, of the family.
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Okay.
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So the couple can decide
which way works for them.
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Right.
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They can take a hybrid approach
or they can take it one way or the
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other way or that sort of thing.
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Okay.
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Um, how about children?
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How about, how about disciplined children?
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Do you recommend disciplined
children or how does that work?
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Because I'm a little old school, so I
know how it was done back in the 60s.
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We are actually.
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Old school, we're, we're products of
old school where we, we, you, if you got
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in trouble, I mean, you were in trouble
and I'm, I'm thankful because looking
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at how, um, you know, some people are
disciplining their children nowadays,
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particularly not disciplining them.
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There's a lot of, um, you
know, um, issues there because.
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As they say, spare the
rod, spoil the child.
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That is really true and um, we're
really very thankful for our
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parents, you know, that they didn't
spare the rod and spoil the child.
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And we really feel that it's important,
you know, in bringing up your children.
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Well, I would say we're two firstborns.
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So, of course, we have that,
that structured mindset.
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Um, so
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I'm a firstborn too.
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I understand exactly what you're saying.
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So, but it also has called us some,
some, uh, battlegrounds at times,
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and we've tried with our different
kids to do things a little different
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at times, but we tend to revert
back to, you know, our upbringing.
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Um, because of course, you know,
kids are different, uh, culture is
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different now, society is different.
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Yep.
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So, so we've, we've tried different
things at different times,
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and sometimes something works,
sometimes something didn't work.
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So, it's an ongoing learning process.
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That's exactly what, that's
exactly what I learned.
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There is no perfect way.
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There is no one way.
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Even if you have Three children,
each child is going to be different,
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but work for child one will not
work for child two or child three.
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Um, and I think that flexibility
or being willing to be flexible
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or being willing to meet the child
wherever he or she is, is important.
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Uh, because a lot of times, um,
some types of structure, some kids
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will completely adapt to that.
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Others will rebel a hundred percent.
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You know, the more you
say left, they go right.
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You say up, they go down.
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Um, Uh, and you love them, um, and so you
have to find that way, and it's not easy.
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I can remember many years ago, I think
it was Bill Cosby who wrote a book,
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uh, and then the point of his book
was that, that is, there is no perfect
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way, that there is, that you don't
learn from the first child with the
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second child, because second, second
child may be completely different.
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Uh, type thing.
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Uh, and, and to your point, Gary,
you know, certainly I, I can
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remember I had a patient, a male
patient who was very upset one day
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he came in to see me and I said, Mr.
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So and so, why are you so upset?
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And he said, My daughter
just called the police on me.
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I said, really?
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I said, tell me about that.
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And he was from out of the
country, different culture,
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more strict culture, you know,
daughter, you know, a female child.
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Uh, and she said, no,
you can't do X, Y, Z.
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You can't, you know, hit me or
whatever, whatever that's abuse.
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And he got into trouble for that.
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And so my point is it,
it really does vary.
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It really does vary.
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And you sort of have to go
with the flow and figure out.
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What works.
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And that's not easy.
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It it, it is not easy.
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Um,
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answer gray here.
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I, I can, speaking of that, you know,
as I was sharing with somebody, I grew
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up as a foster child, so I was really
way out, you know, on the periphery.
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Uh, but I remember by the time
I was in my third foster home,
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um, I could get spankings.
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It wouldn't matter.
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I refuse to cry.
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Uh, and you could, you could
do all that stuff with me, but,
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but I, I, I, I would not react.
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I mean, I was just at that stage.
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Now, fortunately, most kids aren't like
that, but, but my point is it does vary.
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It, it, it does vary.
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Uh, and what may work for one year
or two years may different for,
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for the, the next couple years.
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And that's okay.
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You have to be flexible.
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You, you have to stay flexible, right?
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What is your, uh, recommendation about
conflict resolution between couples?
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I'll
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start with, um, it's funny because
what I'm about to say, It wasn't
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something that was always being done.
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Um, as far as if you're in
conflict, um, there's Certain,
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proper, proper ways to, to argue.
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Mm-Hmm.
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. Um, bring an example of
a proper way to argue
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Well, not, not to allow yourself
to, um, get out of control.
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Be be outta control because
you're so, um, into your feelings.
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Yes.
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And, and I've been guilty of that.
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Many, many times where I was just
so upset with him feeling like.
232
00:14:02,699 --> 00:14:04,380
He just wasn't listening to me.
233
00:14:04,510 --> 00:14:06,780
He just wasn't hearing what I was saying.
234
00:14:07,069 --> 00:14:09,469
You know, he's misinterpreting
what I'm saying.
235
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:14,339
And, but then I'm hearing all
this stuff that I'm supposed to be
236
00:14:14,339 --> 00:14:19,520
changing pertaining to him or what he
thinks I should do and shouldn't do.
237
00:14:19,950 --> 00:14:25,600
So it would put me in a resentful
mode, a resentful frame of mind.
238
00:14:25,830 --> 00:14:27,830
And of course that's negative.
239
00:14:27,950 --> 00:14:32,875
Um, It's not a good thing because
it just lingers sometimes.
240
00:14:33,385 --> 00:14:40,425
So then you're not talking, you know, he's
over here, he's, he's in the living room.
241
00:14:40,444 --> 00:14:41,435
I'm in the bedroom.
242
00:14:41,904 --> 00:14:48,484
Then when you go to bed and you're
on this side of bed, almost off the
243
00:14:48,555 --> 00:14:55,645
bed, you know, it's, it's, all those
are, are things that are not good.
244
00:14:55,655 --> 00:14:56,745
They're not healthy.
245
00:14:57,435 --> 00:14:58,785
And I.
246
00:14:59,315 --> 00:15:05,095
For me, I, I had to, I had to
stop praying the prayer, Lord,
247
00:15:05,125 --> 00:15:07,338
fix him and Lord, change him.
248
00:15:07,338 --> 00:15:07,655
Fix
249
00:15:07,655 --> 00:15:07,971
him?
250
00:15:07,971 --> 00:15:08,921
Okay, got it.
251
00:15:08,921 --> 00:15:09,238
Make
252
00:15:09,238 --> 00:15:11,515
him do this and this and that.
253
00:15:11,924 --> 00:15:16,774
I said, no, Sandra, you need to start
praying a different type of prayer.
254
00:15:17,125 --> 00:15:17,584
That's right.
255
00:15:17,974 --> 00:15:26,954
Show me what I am not seeing should
help me to understand what it is
256
00:15:26,954 --> 00:15:31,885
that he's trying to say and not
be so quick to take, um, offense
257
00:15:32,035 --> 00:15:32,344
on this.
258
00:15:32,345 --> 00:15:36,615
But, you know, please, Lord,
help him to, to hear me.
259
00:15:36,990 --> 00:15:37,860
Yeah, and I
260
00:15:37,860 --> 00:15:43,639
noticed since I have been praying
that way, I noticed that when
261
00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:48,250
we are in conflict, it's much,
it's so, it's so different.
262
00:15:48,650 --> 00:15:54,099
We, we, you know, my, my fuss here and
there, but it's short, it doesn't last.
263
00:15:54,905 --> 00:16:02,064
It doesn't linger where days we've gone
days where, you know, I don't think say
264
00:16:02,064 --> 00:16:10,314
to you, I'm barely going to say good
morning, but you don't do that because we
265
00:16:10,324 --> 00:16:14,074
realize that that is not healthy for us.
266
00:16:14,114 --> 00:16:16,025
That's not healthy for our relationship.
267
00:16:16,445 --> 00:16:18,555
And then of course our
children are watching us.
268
00:16:18,555 --> 00:16:24,375
These are things that we really
said, okay, we need to really,
269
00:16:24,385 --> 00:16:25,895
really pay closer attention to you.
270
00:16:26,115 --> 00:16:31,024
And since we've done those changes over
the years, our children have even made
271
00:16:31,025 --> 00:16:33,665
comments from our oldest to our youngest.
272
00:16:34,844 --> 00:16:39,994
We are when, when we're in conflict,
you know, we don't stay mad long.
273
00:16:39,994 --> 00:16:45,700
Uh, you know, we could be fussing about
something or disagreement, but then They
274
00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:47,640
see us cuddle up on the couch, you know,
275
00:16:48,850 --> 00:16:49,070
for
276
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:49,420
me,
277
00:16:52,660 --> 00:16:59,040
that's what I, I would suggest
to not hold on to things.
278
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,960
If something really
bothering you address it.
279
00:17:02,855 --> 00:17:06,465
Give each other that space
don't force and say, no, we
280
00:17:06,465 --> 00:17:07,785
need to talk about it right now.
281
00:17:07,985 --> 00:17:10,575
Give each other that space to come back
282
00:17:11,795 --> 00:17:12,405
for me.
283
00:17:12,444 --> 00:17:17,974
It was, um, one of the things I realized
about myself was, and I, the best quote
284
00:17:17,974 --> 00:17:22,504
I've heard about it was, um, actually
from, um, A wrestler named Polk Hogan when
285
00:17:22,504 --> 00:17:24,425
he was going through his, uh, divorce.
286
00:17:24,694 --> 00:17:24,784
Mm-Hmm.
287
00:17:25,030 --> 00:17:25,085
, he
288
00:17:25,085 --> 00:17:29,495
said it felt like his best friend
was taking their ball and going
289
00:17:29,495 --> 00:17:32,345
home, you know, understood.
290
00:17:33,004 --> 00:17:33,064
The
291
00:17:33,070 --> 00:17:33,814
game was over
292
00:17:35,615 --> 00:17:41,465
and I felt that way, um, quite a
few times in our marriage at times.
293
00:17:41,675 --> 00:17:41,824
Okay.
294
00:17:42,395 --> 00:17:46,385
Um, and it was always a scary
thing for me because I now realize
295
00:17:46,385 --> 00:17:50,344
now that I'm older, that I've,
I've had some abandonment issues.
296
00:17:50,709 --> 00:17:51,189
Yes.
297
00:17:51,239 --> 00:17:54,709
So, so when those things were
happening in our marriage, especially
298
00:17:54,759 --> 00:17:58,290
in the middle of conflict, those are
the anxiety that I would get, you
299
00:17:58,290 --> 00:17:59,680
know, and I would fight against that
300
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,169
in
301
00:18:01,169 --> 00:18:01,850
different ways.
302
00:18:01,860 --> 00:18:05,320
Sometimes I would retreat, sometimes
I would push, um, even harder.
303
00:18:05,999 --> 00:18:09,159
And neither extreme was good.
304
00:18:09,610 --> 00:18:10,009
Uh huh.
305
00:18:10,469 --> 00:18:11,614
I needed to learn.
306
00:18:12,004 --> 00:18:16,825
That because we weren't in conflict
doesn't mean that we weren't together,
307
00:18:16,855 --> 00:18:18,844
that we were still on the same team.
308
00:18:18,845 --> 00:18:19,415
Exactly.
309
00:18:19,415 --> 00:18:19,944
Exactly.
310
00:18:19,945 --> 00:18:21,975
And so that's helped a lot.
311
00:18:22,825 --> 00:18:29,045
And not, um, holding, holding
bitterness, not holding in resentment
312
00:18:29,045 --> 00:18:32,055
and allowing resentment to build
up, you know, all those things.
313
00:18:33,304 --> 00:18:38,544
Two things I've told, uh, mentioned in
my patients over the years, um, couples.
314
00:18:38,545 --> 00:18:42,594
One, men really are from Mars
and women really are from Venus.
315
00:18:43,045 --> 00:18:45,045
They do not think the same.
316
00:18:45,535 --> 00:18:49,035
It doesn't mean that one way is good or
bad, it means that they're different.
317
00:18:49,465 --> 00:18:55,825
And I think a lot of times, anger and,
and, and resentment or whatever, uh,
318
00:18:55,855 --> 00:18:59,025
comes with why don't you do it this
way, or why don't you, blah, blah, blah,
319
00:18:59,025 --> 00:19:02,384
blah, blah, in general, it may happen
sometimes, but in general, it's not,
320
00:19:02,384 --> 00:19:03,795
fundamental, it's not going to happen.
321
00:19:04,175 --> 00:19:08,145
So, so the first thing is, I, I
have to accept that, that, that,
322
00:19:08,445 --> 00:19:11,695
that folks not going to think the
way I think, and that that's okay.
323
00:19:11,695 --> 00:19:11,842
Okay.
324
00:19:11,842 --> 00:19:11,989
Bye.
325
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:12,640
That's okay.
326
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:14,290
People don't have to
think the way I think.
327
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:22,519
The second thing that I would tell
my patients, um, is that, um, um, uh,
328
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,870
there's control and there's influence.
329
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,499
Um, most, and I, I gave a
talk about this long time ago.
330
00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:32,129
Most of us, parents think
we control our children.
331
00:19:32,129 --> 00:19:33,669
You do not control your children.
332
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:34,900
You may think you do.
333
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:40,600
You do not, and if you doubt that, think
back when you were 15 or 16 and ask
334
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,270
yourself, how much control, honestly,
did your mom and dad have over you?
335
00:19:45,339 --> 00:19:48,039
Just, just, you don't have to tell
me, just, just think about it.
336
00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:50,679
And so my point is, what I learned,
and these are lessons that I've
337
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,950
learned, sometimes the hard
way, is that what I want to do
338
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:57,120
with the kids is have influence.
339
00:19:57,850 --> 00:20:00,820
I want, I never want to get
to the point where they, they
340
00:20:00,820 --> 00:20:02,520
don't talk to me or vice versa.
341
00:20:02,860 --> 00:20:05,490
Because if we're not talking,
then I don't know what's going on.
342
00:20:05,770 --> 00:20:08,210
And if I don't know what's
going on, I can't fix things.
343
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:11,200
That doesn't matter how good
I am, how good I think I am.
344
00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:16,490
If I'm not, if I'm not talking,
uh, so I've got to always be open
345
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:20,160
to listen, to sit down and say,
okay, tell me what I need to know
346
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:21,720
or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
347
00:20:22,010 --> 00:20:28,114
And I've suggested that to patients
over the years and, and, Um, um, I found
348
00:20:28,114 --> 00:20:29,874
that that's had some resonance too.
349
00:20:30,245 --> 00:20:35,514
Um, and, and the, the last thing
is, I used to think, silly me,
350
00:20:35,834 --> 00:20:38,554
that, that, that marriage was 50 50.
351
00:20:38,554 --> 00:20:41,254
And I, I've said this in Sunday
school class a number of times.
352
00:20:41,604 --> 00:20:44,814
I used to say, well, you know, I'm
going to do my 50 percent and then she
353
00:20:44,824 --> 00:20:46,624
does her 50 percent and we're done.
354
00:20:46,635 --> 00:20:47,354
We're good.
355
00:20:47,355 --> 00:20:47,584
We're good.
356
00:20:47,585 --> 00:20:47,814
We're good.
357
00:20:47,855 --> 00:20:50,315
Uh, and, and I remember a true story.
358
00:20:50,315 --> 00:20:52,755
I was at Queen of the Valley
at a conference, leadership
359
00:20:52,755 --> 00:20:53,665
conference or something.
360
00:20:53,985 --> 00:21:00,474
And I listened to a speaker, um, it was a
lady and she said, marriage is not 50 50.
361
00:21:00,475 --> 00:21:04,885
It's a hundred percent zero,
a hundred percent zero.
362
00:21:05,134 --> 00:21:10,595
Once I got to the point of saying,
I've got to go a hundred percent,
363
00:21:10,595 --> 00:21:11,805
doesn't matter what she does.
364
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,240
This is on me.
365
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:14,650
This is on me.
366
00:21:14,970 --> 00:21:21,060
If I do my hundred percent, I'm good
and I'll, I'll, I'll deal with the rest.
367
00:21:21,260 --> 00:21:21,830
You know what I mean?
368
00:21:21,980 --> 00:21:24,520
But a lot of times what
happens is expectation.
369
00:21:24,809 --> 00:21:27,089
I did 35%, but you only did 20%.
370
00:21:27,690 --> 00:21:31,159
I want that other 15 percent and I
want it right now and blah, blah.
371
00:21:31,179 --> 00:21:34,290
And we set these expectations
and we don't communicate them.
372
00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:37,280
So the, so the partner said,
what are you talking about?
373
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:38,730
I have no idea what you're talking about.
374
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:40,530
He said, but you didn't do your 20%.
375
00:21:40,830 --> 00:21:41,940
So we need to stop that.
376
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,220
Because we can't get
inside each other's heads.
377
00:21:44,250 --> 00:21:45,030
Not really.
378
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:47,630
I, you know, we may be smart,
but we're not that smart.
379
00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:51,200
So, so these, these are some of the
things I've learned along the way.
380
00:21:51,250 --> 00:21:51,900
God knows.
381
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,249
Uh, and I am certainly not an expert.
382
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,810
I, I, I made a lot of mistakes
in my life, but God is good.
383
00:21:58,999 --> 00:22:01,029
You know, he has, he has taught me.
384
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:08,310
Um, and, uh, and so particularly, uh,
um, you know, trying to just especially
385
00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:12,919
what you were saying about, uh, you know,
I would get upset and then I, I just,
386
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:16,540
I would just shut down because that,
that's, that's what we do a lot of times.
387
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:17,709
I don't want to talk to you.
388
00:22:17,710 --> 00:22:24,549
I just, just talk to the hand, talk to
the hand, whatever, that doesn't work.
389
00:22:24,579 --> 00:22:25,309
That doesn't work.
390
00:22:26,010 --> 00:22:29,910
Uh, because a lot of times what we're
saying is you did not meet my expectation.
391
00:22:30,460 --> 00:22:34,190
But you see, maybe I wasn't
clear on what my expectation was.
392
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,720
Maybe, maybe, maybe you don't, you
don't really know what my expectations.
393
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,179
You're trying all these things,
but I'm saying, no, no, no, no, no.
394
00:22:42,210 --> 00:22:43,320
That's, that's not what I want.
395
00:22:43,329 --> 00:22:44,219
That's not what I want.
396
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,680
Um, but it's a process.
397
00:22:46,940 --> 00:22:47,910
It's a process.
398
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:50,730
Uh, but as long as there's
value, you're good.
399
00:22:50,970 --> 00:22:55,019
As long as there's value, you're
good because you'll find a way.
400
00:22:55,449 --> 00:22:58,679
You'll find a way to get to
what I call common ground.
401
00:22:59,140 --> 00:23:01,370
You know, you, go ahead.
402
00:23:02,170 --> 00:23:03,740
Well, no, I didn't mean to cut you off.
403
00:23:03,809 --> 00:23:04,330
No, no, no.
404
00:23:04,349 --> 00:23:06,120
I'm just thinking of something.
405
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:08,669
Um, I didn't mean to cut you off though.
406
00:23:08,689 --> 00:23:09,199
No, no.
407
00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:16,619
I, um, was going to say how, what,
um, what we've, um, been noticing or
408
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:26,760
acknowledging is each other's feelings,
even within conflict, even You know, say
409
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,800
he didn't think he did anything wrong,
you know, I'm telling him, you know,
410
00:23:31,810 --> 00:23:35,379
that wasn't you, you did this wrong,
you know, but he's, you know, feeling,
411
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:41,950
no, I, I didn't do anything wrong,
but the fact that he's coming to me.
412
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:49,469
And acknowledging, you know, I'm, I'm,
I'm sorry, I, I, I hurt your feelings
413
00:23:49,469 --> 00:23:57,310
or I'm sorry that, you know, I, I came
off like, you know, I was not, you know,
414
00:23:57,379 --> 00:24:03,279
interested in how this affected you or,
you know, he, he acknowledged my feelings.
415
00:24:03,530 --> 00:24:09,280
And then that's what I've been trying
to do to acknowledge, even if I felt
416
00:24:09,310 --> 00:24:11,550
I didn't do it, do whatever he said.
417
00:24:11,929 --> 00:24:14,360
So that, that's something
that we've been trying to do.
418
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,639
He's been, he's been
doing a lot more to me.
419
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:17,949
I'm being honest.
420
00:24:17,950 --> 00:24:18,489
I'm working on it.
421
00:24:18,490 --> 00:24:18,580
That's
422
00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:18,820
okay.
423
00:24:18,860 --> 00:24:19,779
It's a process.
424
00:24:19,780 --> 00:24:20,158
Concession
425
00:24:20,158 --> 00:24:21,809
is good for the soul.
426
00:24:21,810 --> 00:24:23,899
I'm admitting that.
427
00:24:23,899 --> 00:24:25,430
I am a work in progress.
428
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:26,730
We all are.
429
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:27,510
That's okay.
430
00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:30,290
So it means so much.
431
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:33,070
And I think that it's very important.
432
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:40,500
For, for women, for us women, when
we're feeling like our husbands aren't
433
00:24:40,590 --> 00:24:45,940
hearing us, um, you know, we're, like
I said, we're seeing something, you
434
00:24:45,940 --> 00:24:50,429
know, that's bothering us that, you
know, either was said or how it was said
435
00:24:50,429 --> 00:24:52,700
or what was done or how it was done.
436
00:24:52,929 --> 00:24:58,560
If they're not in agreeance, you know,
we're not agreeing with what's being said,
437
00:24:58,610 --> 00:25:02,129
but they acknowledge, yes, that did it.
438
00:25:02,514 --> 00:25:04,814
That's how it made us feel.
439
00:25:05,004 --> 00:25:09,115
I think that that is important
too, because to me that shows,
440
00:25:09,245 --> 00:25:14,475
okay, I don't want my wife to
feel like I'm being dismissive.
441
00:25:14,475 --> 00:25:18,805
I don't want my wife to feel like
her feelings in whatever's going
442
00:25:18,805 --> 00:25:23,644
on didn't matter in, in this, this
disagreement and, or whatever.
443
00:25:23,705 --> 00:25:24,925
I want her to know.
444
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,009
I am listening or I'm concerned.
445
00:25:28,019 --> 00:25:29,659
I'm, I might not agree.
446
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,590
I, I don't want her to feel
like her feelings don't matter.
447
00:25:34,590 --> 00:25:37,909
So that is so important, but
it needs to be both ways.
448
00:25:37,979 --> 00:25:40,309
It has to be both of us.
449
00:25:40,649 --> 00:25:41,810
And that's called respect.
450
00:25:42,270 --> 00:25:43,060
That's called respect.
451
00:25:43,580 --> 00:25:48,210
I, I remember I had a conversation
with a couple, um, and the wife said
452
00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:52,850
to the husband, um, she said, when,
when I come to you and I tell you
453
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,720
things that are bothering me or that
I'm upset about, I'm not asking you to
454
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,719
fix it because a lot of times the male
approach is, okay, tell me what it is.
455
00:26:03,049 --> 00:26:04,659
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, done.
456
00:26:05,049 --> 00:26:06,109
Don't worry about it anymore.
457
00:26:06,139 --> 00:26:07,149
It's all taken care
458
00:26:07,150 --> 00:26:09,014
of.
459
00:26:09,014 --> 00:26:12,170
Well, I really think that's a guy thing.
460
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:17,340
But that's just me, but what she said was,
she said, I just want somebody to listen.
461
00:26:17,730 --> 00:26:20,420
I'm not asking you to
come up with a solution.
462
00:26:20,619 --> 00:26:21,790
I'll find a solution.
463
00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:23,719
I just want an ear.
464
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:27,350
And clearly I have learned as a position,
I'm certainly not a psychiatrist,
465
00:26:27,619 --> 00:26:31,119
but I have learned as a position of
whether just a friend, a lot of times
466
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,040
you just want somebody to listen.
467
00:26:33,675 --> 00:26:37,165
And they don't have to say anything,
but just let you go through whatever
468
00:26:37,165 --> 00:26:38,595
you go through or say whatever you need.
469
00:26:38,835 --> 00:26:42,155
And that itself may very well
be therapeutic because that
470
00:26:42,155 --> 00:26:44,504
may show respect or caring.
471
00:26:44,675 --> 00:26:47,945
Okay, I care enough and I'll take
whatever amount of time you have.
472
00:26:47,945 --> 00:26:49,494
And you just, just talk to me.
473
00:26:49,735 --> 00:26:54,915
But we guys, I, you know, at least in
this particular case, The guy was the type
474
00:26:54,915 --> 00:26:58,475
of person who wanted to fix everything,
you know, I'll, I'll take care of you.
475
00:26:58,504 --> 00:26:59,935
She says, I don't need
you to take care of me.
476
00:26:59,935 --> 00:27:04,305
I just, I just want you to listen
when I talk to you, you know,
477
00:27:04,305 --> 00:27:05,374
you don't have to fix anything.
478
00:27:05,565 --> 00:27:08,514
I can fix it myself, but I want to share.
479
00:27:08,705 --> 00:27:12,215
What, what I'm going through, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
480
00:27:12,605 --> 00:27:15,814
Uh, so it, it's, it's a
process and, and it takes time.
481
00:27:16,175 --> 00:27:21,725
Um, but, but if at least what has worked
for me personally is it's a hundred
482
00:27:21,725 --> 00:27:24,275
percent me, a hundred percent me.
483
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,895
And if I, if I do what I'm supposed to
do, a hundred percent, um, and just be
484
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:31,835
there, um, you know, things get better.
485
00:27:35,205 --> 00:27:35,895
Okay.
00:00:00,860 --> 00:00:04,530
Well, we're very, very happy,
uh, to welcome the Sucrum
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family, uh, to our podcast on
this beautiful Saturday morning.
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Um, uh, we're delighted
to have you with us.
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Uh, so good morning to you.
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Good morning.
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Good morning.
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Very good.
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Now, I want to let you know
that in the year and a half that
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we've had these podcasts, you're
making history, uh, because we've
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never had a club along before.
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Okay.
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So, so we're, we're, we're, we're going
off into uncharted territory with that.
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So,
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so years from now, years from now, they'll
say, who was the first couple was on
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the Healthy, Wealthy, and Wise podcast?
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And so that, that, that,
that'll be you guys.
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But, but we certainly want to thank you
again, though, for, for being with us.
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We know that weekends
are particularly busy.
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Um, and we really thank
you for sharing your time.
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Uh, with us, uh, uh, this morning.
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So very good.
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So, so, so tell me about yourself.
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Oh, so, uh, born and raised
in Trinidad and Tobago.
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Came to America in the late eighties.
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My mom was already living here.
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So my brother and I were asked if
we wanted to join our mom here.
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And we, of course we said, yes.
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Uh, moved to Houston, Texas, uh, about a
year and a half later came to California.
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My mom married, we came out to California,
um, became a preschool teacher.
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And some years after that met my
wife in 97, uh, she, she had two,
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two girls, uh, two and a half and.
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About five.
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Okay.
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Oldest one in history with me.
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Okay.
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Tanya, tell us about you.
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Well, I'm, I'm originally from Chicago.
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Um, I've, Live different places
here and there with my parents.
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And then I moved on my own and lived
a few different places like Wisconsin.
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Um, I ended up, um, coming to, um,
went to Kentucky and then I went
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back to Chicago for a little bit.
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And then my mom and dad were
already out here in California,
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Uhhuh , and they convinced me
to move, um, out, back out here.
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So we, we, we were known as the, as the
black gypsies of the family , because
45
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we were always moving with dad's job.
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00:02:39,790 --> 00:02:42,010
And, you know, it was funny.
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00:02:42,850 --> 00:02:48,095
But, um, I came out here in 96
and you know, like my husband
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said, we met in 97 and I was a
single mom, two little girls, and.
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We've been together ever since and
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the rest is history
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00:02:58,745 --> 00:02:59,235
field.
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00:02:59,235 --> 00:03:08,755
I, I've, um, been a CNA over the years,
um, was, um, trying to look into nursing
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and it's different, different things I've
been trying to, trying to do, trying to.
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00:03:14,740 --> 00:03:15,890
I have to find my way.
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00:03:16,370 --> 00:03:16,420
Okay.
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00:03:17,260 --> 00:03:19,870
Where where the lord wants me to to go.
57
00:03:20,730 --> 00:03:21,160
Okay.
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00:03:21,970 --> 00:03:26,640
Well, one of the things that I have
heard that that both you and Gar are
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00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:31,399
involved with the marriage ministry
at Saint Stephen's tell me about tell
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00:03:31,399 --> 00:03:35,900
me what is the marriage ministry and
and what what what do you guys do?
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00:03:36,850 --> 00:03:44,020
So, just um so the marriage prior to
covid was a A pretty strong ministry,
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you know, we had different classes
at church and different events, but
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during it, of course, you know, died
down and we're trying to revive it.
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Now.
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00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:53,890
We're not trying to, we are reviving it.
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Now, I'm still currently
we're attempting to.
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Put a little different spin on it.
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00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,370
Do a lot of more activities with
couples together, interacting
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00:04:04,650 --> 00:04:09,239
together and of course, doing some
sessions on zoom and different things.
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So we're exploring different avenues just
to try and get the couples active again,
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00:04:15,209 --> 00:04:20,209
exploring all the issues in marriages
and just trying to help each other.
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00:04:21,219 --> 00:04:23,250
Maintain a healthy, uh, Christian marriage
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00:04:23,690 --> 00:04:29,140
and Reverend Sister Francis, um,
have taken us under their wing and,
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and they were working with us and,
you know, also learning from them.
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Also,
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okay.
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Okay.
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00:04:37,245 --> 00:04:42,055
So if a couple is thinking about whether
they should come to your sessions or
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join the ministry or not, what, what,
what, uh, what, what should they know
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that it's a safe space?
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00:04:50,145 --> 00:04:50,655
Okay.
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00:04:51,005 --> 00:04:51,125
Okay.
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00:04:51,235 --> 00:04:55,995
Um, you know, we're, we're
very open, honest, of course.
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00:04:56,115 --> 00:05:02,705
Um, everything comes from a biblical
standpoint, but, um, a term,
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00:05:02,705 --> 00:05:06,505
uh, Pastor Dockery often uses is
where the rubber meets the road.
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00:05:06,825 --> 00:05:11,395
So, so we're, we're approaching things
in that standpoint of where, where
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does our biblical standpoints in
marriage meet our day to day living?
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How do we, how do we work that out?
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00:05:19,665 --> 00:05:20,265
Okay,
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00:05:21,195 --> 00:05:25,495
so if, if someone were to say,
well, what, what is the biblical
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00:05:25,875 --> 00:05:27,915
status or principle for marriage?
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00:05:28,024 --> 00:05:32,314
Let's say I'm, um, a couple is going
to get married and they want to make
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00:05:32,314 --> 00:05:37,314
sure that we do it the right way and,
and that everything is done correctly.
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00:05:38,205 --> 00:05:41,725
Um, uh, what, what advice would
you give them before they even
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00:05:41,725 --> 00:05:43,405
come to interview sessions?
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00:05:44,365 --> 00:05:45,235
All the time.
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00:05:45,535 --> 00:05:50,205
I would, for me, I would definitely
encourage premarital counseling,
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00:05:50,815 --> 00:05:53,224
um, with, with pastor Dockery.
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00:05:53,955 --> 00:05:54,455
Okay.
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00:05:55,334 --> 00:06:02,455
Um, be able to sit down with him,
lay all the cards out on the table,
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00:06:03,385 --> 00:06:06,234
what, you know, your expectations.
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00:06:07,070 --> 00:06:13,340
Are in a marriage, what your
concerns are, what each other's
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00:06:13,350 --> 00:06:17,980
views are on, you know, if you plan
on having children, but you're, um,
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00:06:18,220 --> 00:06:25,629
disciplining strategies are your, um,
everything, yeah, everything finances.
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00:06:26,170 --> 00:06:32,680
It is very important to do
that step 1st, as far as with
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00:06:32,710 --> 00:06:35,580
premarital counseling to make sure.
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All the, what all the ducks are in a
row, as they say, so you're not going
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in to the marriage blind and having
all kinds of surprises and, you know,
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feeling like, oh, no, I didn't know this,
or I wish I would have known that, or
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I wish I would have, or we would have
talked about, you know, how we felt
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00:06:59,155 --> 00:07:01,645
and what we expected from each other.
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00:07:01,930 --> 00:07:08,710
In, in, um, you know, the marriage
or, you know, what we want in our
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00:07:08,710 --> 00:07:11,340
relationship, um, it's very important
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00:07:11,340 --> 00:07:15,680
as far as the marriage ministry
itself, there is no prerequisite
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00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:16,440
for
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00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:22,629
joining the ministry or, or, uh, becoming,
uh, getting involved, getting involved.
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00:07:24,090 --> 00:07:24,590
Okay.
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00:07:26,290 --> 00:07:29,219
Is, is there a recommended, and
I'm just, just thinking of stuff
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off the top of my head now.
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00:07:30,650 --> 00:07:33,960
Should, should all marriage couples
have joint bank accounts or can
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00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,450
they have separate bank accounts?
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00:07:36,460 --> 00:07:39,940
Well, we believe in
both, a hybrid of both.
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00:07:40,459 --> 00:07:46,510
So, so, so with us, we've, um, for some
years now, we have our main account that
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00:07:46,510 --> 00:07:48,590
is, that is a joint account together.
125
00:07:49,030 --> 00:07:49,330
Okay.
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00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:50,880
But then we also have a separate.
127
00:07:51,540 --> 00:07:54,970
Uh, spending account or allowance
account, um, for each other.
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00:07:55,810 --> 00:07:59,330
So it kind of gives a little bit of,
uh, both worlds where you, you have a
129
00:07:59,330 --> 00:08:04,820
little bit of independence, but at the
same token, you have the, the, um, the
130
00:08:04,820 --> 00:08:07,040
base of the, of the, of the family.
131
00:08:07,265 --> 00:08:09,504
Okay.
132
00:08:09,685 --> 00:08:12,595
So the couple can decide
which way works for them.
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00:08:13,015 --> 00:08:13,255
Right.
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00:08:13,645 --> 00:08:16,175
They can take a hybrid approach
or they can take it one way or the
135
00:08:16,175 --> 00:08:18,495
other way or that sort of thing.
136
00:08:19,095 --> 00:08:19,715
Okay.
137
00:08:21,095 --> 00:08:24,364
Um, how about children?
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00:08:24,375 --> 00:08:26,494
How about, how about disciplined children?
139
00:08:27,065 --> 00:08:30,365
Do you recommend disciplined
children or how does that work?
140
00:08:30,835 --> 00:08:34,755
Because I'm a little old school, so I
know how it was done back in the 60s.
141
00:08:36,735 --> 00:08:38,255
We are actually.
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00:08:38,925 --> 00:08:45,775
Old school, we're, we're products of
old school where we, we, you, if you got
143
00:08:45,775 --> 00:08:54,404
in trouble, I mean, you were in trouble
and I'm, I'm thankful because looking
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00:08:54,404 --> 00:08:59,924
at how, um, you know, some people are
disciplining their children nowadays,
145
00:09:01,104 --> 00:09:02,654
particularly not disciplining them.
146
00:09:03,564 --> 00:09:10,624
There's a lot of, um, you
know, um, issues there because.
147
00:09:11,065 --> 00:09:13,995
As they say, spare the
rod, spoil the child.
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00:09:14,345 --> 00:09:20,305
That is really true and um, we're
really very thankful for our
149
00:09:20,334 --> 00:09:24,475
parents, you know, that they didn't
spare the rod and spoil the child.
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00:09:24,985 --> 00:09:31,665
And we really feel that it's important,
you know, in bringing up your children.
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00:09:32,145 --> 00:09:35,365
Well, I would say we're two firstborns.
152
00:09:35,575 --> 00:09:38,345
So, of course, we have that,
that structured mindset.
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00:09:38,945 --> 00:09:40,645
Um, so
154
00:09:40,675 --> 00:09:41,965
I'm a firstborn too.
155
00:09:41,984 --> 00:09:43,745
I understand exactly what you're saying.
156
00:09:44,615 --> 00:09:49,634
So, but it also has called us some,
some, uh, battlegrounds at times,
157
00:09:50,115 --> 00:09:55,085
and we've tried with our different
kids to do things a little different
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00:09:55,155 --> 00:10:00,425
at times, but we tend to revert
back to, you know, our upbringing.
159
00:10:01,060 --> 00:10:03,880
Um, because of course, you know,
kids are different, uh, culture is
160
00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:05,410
different now, society is different.
161
00:10:05,620 --> 00:10:05,930
Yep.
162
00:10:06,180 --> 00:10:09,089
So, so we've, we've tried different
things at different times,
163
00:10:09,089 --> 00:10:12,069
and sometimes something works,
sometimes something didn't work.
164
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,780
So, it's an ongoing learning process.
165
00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,959
That's exactly what, that's
exactly what I learned.
166
00:10:18,189 --> 00:10:19,449
There is no perfect way.
167
00:10:19,510 --> 00:10:20,790
There is no one way.
168
00:10:21,099 --> 00:10:25,150
Even if you have Three children,
each child is going to be different,
169
00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,980
but work for child one will not
work for child two or child three.
170
00:10:29,370 --> 00:10:33,480
Um, and I think that flexibility
or being willing to be flexible
171
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:38,730
or being willing to meet the child
wherever he or she is, is important.
172
00:10:39,020 --> 00:10:43,870
Uh, because a lot of times, um,
some types of structure, some kids
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00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:45,650
will completely adapt to that.
174
00:10:45,910 --> 00:10:47,930
Others will rebel a hundred percent.
175
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,440
You know, the more you
say left, they go right.
176
00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:52,059
You say up, they go down.
177
00:10:52,059 --> 00:10:57,850
Um, Uh, and you love them, um, and so you
have to find that way, and it's not easy.
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I can remember many years ago, I think
it was Bill Cosby who wrote a book,
179
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,400
uh, and then the point of his book
was that, that is, there is no perfect
180
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,750
way, that there is, that you don't
learn from the first child with the
181
00:11:10,750 --> 00:11:13,990
second child, because second, second
child may be completely different.
182
00:11:14,449 --> 00:11:15,609
Uh, type thing.
183
00:11:15,959 --> 00:11:21,100
Uh, and, and to your point, Gary,
you know, certainly I, I can
184
00:11:21,100 --> 00:11:25,900
remember I had a patient, a male
patient who was very upset one day
185
00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:28,350
he came in to see me and I said, Mr.
186
00:11:28,350 --> 00:11:29,670
So and so, why are you so upset?
187
00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:33,245
And he said, My daughter
just called the police on me.
188
00:11:33,645 --> 00:11:34,855
I said, really?
189
00:11:35,265 --> 00:11:36,845
I said, tell me about that.
190
00:11:37,025 --> 00:11:39,855
And he was from out of the
country, different culture,
191
00:11:40,115 --> 00:11:44,545
more strict culture, you know,
daughter, you know, a female child.
192
00:11:44,864 --> 00:11:48,584
Uh, and she said, no,
you can't do X, Y, Z.
193
00:11:48,934 --> 00:11:51,805
You can't, you know, hit me or
whatever, whatever that's abuse.
194
00:11:52,315 --> 00:11:53,645
And he got into trouble for that.
195
00:11:53,955 --> 00:11:56,395
And so my point is it,
it really does vary.
196
00:11:56,405 --> 00:11:57,465
It really does vary.
197
00:11:57,795 --> 00:12:00,715
And you sort of have to go
with the flow and figure out.
198
00:12:01,325 --> 00:12:01,985
What works.
199
00:12:01,985 --> 00:12:03,035
And that's not easy.
200
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:04,745
It it, it is not easy.
201
00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:05,800
Um,
202
00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:08,040
answer gray here.
203
00:12:11,255 --> 00:12:15,275
I, I can, speaking of that, you know,
as I was sharing with somebody, I grew
204
00:12:15,275 --> 00:12:20,285
up as a foster child, so I was really
way out, you know, on the periphery.
205
00:12:20,555 --> 00:12:24,335
Uh, but I remember by the time
I was in my third foster home,
206
00:12:24,815 --> 00:12:26,705
um, I could get spankings.
207
00:12:26,705 --> 00:12:27,395
It wouldn't matter.
208
00:12:28,015 --> 00:12:29,545
I refuse to cry.
209
00:12:29,875 --> 00:12:33,984
Uh, and you could, you could
do all that stuff with me, but,
210
00:12:33,984 --> 00:12:36,234
but I, I, I, I would not react.
211
00:12:36,234 --> 00:12:37,974
I mean, I was just at that stage.
212
00:12:38,244 --> 00:12:42,444
Now, fortunately, most kids aren't like
that, but, but my point is it does vary.
213
00:12:42,474 --> 00:12:43,734
It, it, it does vary.
214
00:12:44,155 --> 00:12:47,969
Uh, and what may work for one year
or two years may different for,
215
00:12:47,969 --> 00:12:49,645
for the, the next couple years.
216
00:12:49,944 --> 00:12:50,574
And that's okay.
217
00:12:50,574 --> 00:12:51,685
You have to be flexible.
218
00:12:51,689 --> 00:12:53,155
You, you have to stay flexible, right?
219
00:12:56,170 --> 00:13:02,380
What is your, uh, recommendation about
conflict resolution between couples?
220
00:13:02,380 --> 00:13:06,630
I'll
221
00:13:06,630 --> 00:13:19,010
start with, um, it's funny because
what I'm about to say, It wasn't
222
00:13:19,020 --> 00:13:20,990
something that was always being done.
223
00:13:21,770 --> 00:13:30,270
Um, as far as if you're in
conflict, um, there's Certain,
224
00:13:30,850 --> 00:13:34,389
proper, proper ways to, to argue.
225
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:35,690
Mm-Hmm.
226
00:13:35,935 --> 00:13:38,690
. Um, bring an example of
a proper way to argue
227
00:13:39,885 --> 00:13:48,939
Well, not, not to allow yourself
to, um, get out of control.
228
00:13:48,954 --> 00:13:54,379
Be be outta control because
you're so, um, into your feelings.
229
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:54,739
Yes.
230
00:13:54,739 --> 00:13:56,599
And, and I've been guilty of that.
231
00:13:56,935 --> 00:14:02,345
Many, many times where I was just
so upset with him feeling like.
232
00:14:02,699 --> 00:14:04,380
He just wasn't listening to me.
233
00:14:04,510 --> 00:14:06,780
He just wasn't hearing what I was saying.
234
00:14:07,069 --> 00:14:09,469
You know, he's misinterpreting
what I'm saying.
235
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:14,339
And, but then I'm hearing all
this stuff that I'm supposed to be
236
00:14:14,339 --> 00:14:19,520
changing pertaining to him or what he
thinks I should do and shouldn't do.
237
00:14:19,950 --> 00:14:25,600
So it would put me in a resentful
mode, a resentful frame of mind.
238
00:14:25,830 --> 00:14:27,830
And of course that's negative.
239
00:14:27,950 --> 00:14:32,875
Um, It's not a good thing because
it just lingers sometimes.
240
00:14:33,385 --> 00:14:40,425
So then you're not talking, you know, he's
over here, he's, he's in the living room.
241
00:14:40,444 --> 00:14:41,435
I'm in the bedroom.
242
00:14:41,904 --> 00:14:48,484
Then when you go to bed and you're
on this side of bed, almost off the
243
00:14:48,555 --> 00:14:55,645
bed, you know, it's, it's, all those
are, are things that are not good.
244
00:14:55,655 --> 00:14:56,745
They're not healthy.
245
00:14:57,435 --> 00:14:58,785
And I.
246
00:14:59,315 --> 00:15:05,095
For me, I, I had to, I had to
stop praying the prayer, Lord,
247
00:15:05,125 --> 00:15:07,338
fix him and Lord, change him.
248
00:15:07,338 --> 00:15:07,655
Fix
249
00:15:07,655 --> 00:15:07,971
him?
250
00:15:07,971 --> 00:15:08,921
Okay, got it.
251
00:15:08,921 --> 00:15:09,238
Make
252
00:15:09,238 --> 00:15:11,515
him do this and this and that.
253
00:15:11,924 --> 00:15:16,774
I said, no, Sandra, you need to start
praying a different type of prayer.
254
00:15:17,125 --> 00:15:17,584
That's right.
255
00:15:17,974 --> 00:15:26,954
Show me what I am not seeing should
help me to understand what it is
256
00:15:26,954 --> 00:15:31,885
that he's trying to say and not
be so quick to take, um, offense
257
00:15:32,035 --> 00:15:32,344
on this.
258
00:15:32,345 --> 00:15:36,615
But, you know, please, Lord,
help him to, to hear me.
259
00:15:36,990 --> 00:15:37,860
Yeah, and I
260
00:15:37,860 --> 00:15:43,639
noticed since I have been praying
that way, I noticed that when
261
00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:48,250
we are in conflict, it's much,
it's so, it's so different.
262
00:15:48,650 --> 00:15:54,099
We, we, you know, my, my fuss here and
there, but it's short, it doesn't last.
263
00:15:54,905 --> 00:16:02,064
It doesn't linger where days we've gone
days where, you know, I don't think say
264
00:16:02,064 --> 00:16:10,314
to you, I'm barely going to say good
morning, but you don't do that because we
265
00:16:10,324 --> 00:16:14,074
realize that that is not healthy for us.
266
00:16:14,114 --> 00:16:16,025
That's not healthy for our relationship.
267
00:16:16,445 --> 00:16:18,555
And then of course our
children are watching us.
268
00:16:18,555 --> 00:16:24,375
These are things that we really
said, okay, we need to really,
269
00:16:24,385 --> 00:16:25,895
really pay closer attention to you.
270
00:16:26,115 --> 00:16:31,024
And since we've done those changes over
the years, our children have even made
271
00:16:31,025 --> 00:16:33,665
comments from our oldest to our youngest.
272
00:16:34,844 --> 00:16:39,994
We are when, when we're in conflict,
you know, we don't stay mad long.
273
00:16:39,994 --> 00:16:45,700
Uh, you know, we could be fussing about
something or disagreement, but then They
274
00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:47,640
see us cuddle up on the couch, you know,
275
00:16:48,850 --> 00:16:49,070
for
276
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:49,420
me,
277
00:16:52,660 --> 00:16:59,040
that's what I, I would suggest
to not hold on to things.
278
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,960
If something really
bothering you address it.
279
00:17:02,855 --> 00:17:06,465
Give each other that space
don't force and say, no, we
280
00:17:06,465 --> 00:17:07,785
need to talk about it right now.
281
00:17:07,985 --> 00:17:10,575
Give each other that space to come back
282
00:17:11,795 --> 00:17:12,405
for me.
283
00:17:12,444 --> 00:17:17,974
It was, um, one of the things I realized
about myself was, and I, the best quote
284
00:17:17,974 --> 00:17:22,504
I've heard about it was, um, actually
from, um, A wrestler named Polk Hogan when
285
00:17:22,504 --> 00:17:24,425
he was going through his, uh, divorce.
286
00:17:24,694 --> 00:17:24,784
Mm-Hmm.
287
00:17:25,030 --> 00:17:25,085
, he
288
00:17:25,085 --> 00:17:29,495
said it felt like his best friend
was taking their ball and going
289
00:17:29,495 --> 00:17:32,345
home, you know, understood.
290
00:17:33,004 --> 00:17:33,064
The
291
00:17:33,070 --> 00:17:33,814
game was over
292
00:17:35,615 --> 00:17:41,465
and I felt that way, um, quite a
few times in our marriage at times.
293
00:17:41,675 --> 00:17:41,824
Okay.
294
00:17:42,395 --> 00:17:46,385
Um, and it was always a scary
thing for me because I now realize
295
00:17:46,385 --> 00:17:50,344
now that I'm older, that I've,
I've had some abandonment issues.
296
00:17:50,709 --> 00:17:51,189
Yes.
297
00:17:51,239 --> 00:17:54,709
So, so when those things were
happening in our marriage, especially
298
00:17:54,759 --> 00:17:58,290
in the middle of conflict, those are
the anxiety that I would get, you
299
00:17:58,290 --> 00:17:59,680
know, and I would fight against that
300
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,169
in
301
00:18:01,169 --> 00:18:01,850
different ways.
302
00:18:01,860 --> 00:18:05,320
Sometimes I would retreat, sometimes
I would push, um, even harder.
303
00:18:05,999 --> 00:18:09,159
And neither extreme was good.
304
00:18:09,610 --> 00:18:10,009
Uh huh.
305
00:18:10,469 --> 00:18:11,614
I needed to learn.
306
00:18:12,004 --> 00:18:16,825
That because we weren't in conflict
doesn't mean that we weren't together,
307
00:18:16,855 --> 00:18:18,844
that we were still on the same team.
308
00:18:18,845 --> 00:18:19,415
Exactly.
309
00:18:19,415 --> 00:18:19,944
Exactly.
310
00:18:19,945 --> 00:18:21,975
And so that's helped a lot.
311
00:18:22,825 --> 00:18:29,045
And not, um, holding, holding
bitterness, not holding in resentment
312
00:18:29,045 --> 00:18:32,055
and allowing resentment to build
up, you know, all those things.
313
00:18:33,304 --> 00:18:38,544
Two things I've told, uh, mentioned in
my patients over the years, um, couples.
314
00:18:38,545 --> 00:18:42,594
One, men really are from Mars
and women really are from Venus.
315
00:18:43,045 --> 00:18:45,045
They do not think the same.
316
00:18:45,535 --> 00:18:49,035
It doesn't mean that one way is good or
bad, it means that they're different.
317
00:18:49,465 --> 00:18:55,825
And I think a lot of times, anger and,
and, and resentment or whatever, uh,
318
00:18:55,855 --> 00:18:59,025
comes with why don't you do it this
way, or why don't you, blah, blah, blah,
319
00:18:59,025 --> 00:19:02,384
blah, blah, in general, it may happen
sometimes, but in general, it's not,
320
00:19:02,384 --> 00:19:03,795
fundamental, it's not going to happen.
321
00:19:04,175 --> 00:19:08,145
So, so the first thing is, I, I
have to accept that, that, that,
322
00:19:08,445 --> 00:19:11,695
that folks not going to think the
way I think, and that that's okay.
323
00:19:11,695 --> 00:19:11,842
Okay.
324
00:19:11,842 --> 00:19:11,989
Bye.
325
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:12,640
That's okay.
326
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:14,290
People don't have to
think the way I think.
327
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:22,519
The second thing that I would tell
my patients, um, is that, um, um, uh,
328
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,870
there's control and there's influence.
329
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,499
Um, most, and I, I gave a
talk about this long time ago.
330
00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:32,129
Most of us, parents think
we control our children.
331
00:19:32,129 --> 00:19:33,669
You do not control your children.
332
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:34,900
You may think you do.
333
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:40,600
You do not, and if you doubt that, think
back when you were 15 or 16 and ask
334
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,270
yourself, how much control, honestly,
did your mom and dad have over you?
335
00:19:45,339 --> 00:19:48,039
Just, just, you don't have to tell
me, just, just think about it.
336
00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:50,679
And so my point is, what I learned,
and these are lessons that I've
337
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,950
learned, sometimes the hard
way, is that what I want to do
338
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:57,120
with the kids is have influence.
339
00:19:57,850 --> 00:20:00,820
I want, I never want to get
to the point where they, they
340
00:20:00,820 --> 00:20:02,520
don't talk to me or vice versa.
341
00:20:02,860 --> 00:20:05,490
Because if we're not talking,
then I don't know what's going on.
342
00:20:05,770 --> 00:20:08,210
And if I don't know what's
going on, I can't fix things.
343
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:11,200
That doesn't matter how good
I am, how good I think I am.
344
00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:16,490
If I'm not, if I'm not talking,
uh, so I've got to always be open
345
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:20,160
to listen, to sit down and say,
okay, tell me what I need to know
346
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:21,720
or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
347
00:20:22,010 --> 00:20:28,114
And I've suggested that to patients
over the years and, and, Um, um, I found
348
00:20:28,114 --> 00:20:29,874
that that's had some resonance too.
349
00:20:30,245 --> 00:20:35,514
Um, and, and the, the last thing
is, I used to think, silly me,
350
00:20:35,834 --> 00:20:38,554
that, that, that marriage was 50 50.
351
00:20:38,554 --> 00:20:41,254
And I, I've said this in Sunday
school class a number of times.
352
00:20:41,604 --> 00:20:44,814
I used to say, well, you know, I'm
going to do my 50 percent and then she
353
00:20:44,824 --> 00:20:46,624
does her 50 percent and we're done.
354
00:20:46,635 --> 00:20:47,354
We're good.
355
00:20:47,355 --> 00:20:47,584
We're good.
356
00:20:47,585 --> 00:20:47,814
We're good.
357
00:20:47,855 --> 00:20:50,315
Uh, and, and I remember a true story.
358
00:20:50,315 --> 00:20:52,755
I was at Queen of the Valley
at a conference, leadership
359
00:20:52,755 --> 00:20:53,665
conference or something.
360
00:20:53,985 --> 00:21:00,474
And I listened to a speaker, um, it was a
lady and she said, marriage is not 50 50.
361
00:21:00,475 --> 00:21:04,885
It's a hundred percent zero,
a hundred percent zero.
362
00:21:05,134 --> 00:21:10,595
Once I got to the point of saying,
I've got to go a hundred percent,
363
00:21:10,595 --> 00:21:11,805
doesn't matter what she does.
364
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,240
This is on me.
365
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:14,650
This is on me.
366
00:21:14,970 --> 00:21:21,060
If I do my hundred percent, I'm good
and I'll, I'll, I'll deal with the rest.
367
00:21:21,260 --> 00:21:21,830
You know what I mean?
368
00:21:21,980 --> 00:21:24,520
But a lot of times what
happens is expectation.
369
00:21:24,809 --> 00:21:27,089
I did 35%, but you only did 20%.
370
00:21:27,690 --> 00:21:31,159
I want that other 15 percent and I
want it right now and blah, blah.
371
00:21:31,179 --> 00:21:34,290
And we set these expectations
and we don't communicate them.
372
00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:37,280
So the, so the partner said,
what are you talking about?
373
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:38,730
I have no idea what you're talking about.
374
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:40,530
He said, but you didn't do your 20%.
375
00:21:40,830 --> 00:21:41,940
So we need to stop that.
376
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,220
Because we can't get
inside each other's heads.
377
00:21:44,250 --> 00:21:45,030
Not really.
378
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:47,630
I, you know, we may be smart,
but we're not that smart.
379
00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:51,200
So, so these, these are some of the
things I've learned along the way.
380
00:21:51,250 --> 00:21:51,900
God knows.
381
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,249
Uh, and I am certainly not an expert.
382
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,810
I, I, I made a lot of mistakes
in my life, but God is good.
383
00:21:58,999 --> 00:22:01,029
You know, he has, he has taught me.
384
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:08,310
Um, and, uh, and so particularly, uh,
um, you know, trying to just especially
385
00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:12,919
what you were saying about, uh, you know,
I would get upset and then I, I just,
386
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:16,540
I would just shut down because that,
that's, that's what we do a lot of times.
387
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:17,709
I don't want to talk to you.
388
00:22:17,710 --> 00:22:24,549
I just, just talk to the hand, talk to
the hand, whatever, that doesn't work.
389
00:22:24,579 --> 00:22:25,309
That doesn't work.
390
00:22:26,010 --> 00:22:29,910
Uh, because a lot of times what we're
saying is you did not meet my expectation.
391
00:22:30,460 --> 00:22:34,190
But you see, maybe I wasn't
clear on what my expectation was.
392
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,720
Maybe, maybe, maybe you don't, you
don't really know what my expectations.
393
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,179
You're trying all these things,
but I'm saying, no, no, no, no, no.
394
00:22:42,210 --> 00:22:43,320
That's, that's not what I want.
395
00:22:43,329 --> 00:22:44,219
That's not what I want.
396
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,680
Um, but it's a process.
397
00:22:46,940 --> 00:22:47,910
It's a process.
398
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:50,730
Uh, but as long as there's
value, you're good.
399
00:22:50,970 --> 00:22:55,019
As long as there's value, you're
good because you'll find a way.
400
00:22:55,449 --> 00:22:58,679
You'll find a way to get to
what I call common ground.
401
00:22:59,140 --> 00:23:01,370
You know, you, go ahead.
402
00:23:02,170 --> 00:23:03,740
Well, no, I didn't mean to cut you off.
403
00:23:03,809 --> 00:23:04,330
No, no, no.
404
00:23:04,349 --> 00:23:06,120
I'm just thinking of something.
405
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:08,669
Um, I didn't mean to cut you off though.
406
00:23:08,689 --> 00:23:09,199
No, no.
407
00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:16,619
I, um, was going to say how, what,
um, what we've, um, been noticing or
408
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:26,760
acknowledging is each other's feelings,
even within conflict, even You know, say
409
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,800
he didn't think he did anything wrong,
you know, I'm telling him, you know,
410
00:23:31,810 --> 00:23:35,379
that wasn't you, you did this wrong,
you know, but he's, you know, feeling,
411
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:41,950
no, I, I didn't do anything wrong,
but the fact that he's coming to me.
412
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:49,469
And acknowledging, you know, I'm, I'm,
I'm sorry, I, I, I hurt your feelings
413
00:23:49,469 --> 00:23:57,310
or I'm sorry that, you know, I, I came
off like, you know, I was not, you know,
414
00:23:57,379 --> 00:24:03,279
interested in how this affected you or,
you know, he, he acknowledged my feelings.
415
00:24:03,530 --> 00:24:09,280
And then that's what I've been trying
to do to acknowledge, even if I felt
416
00:24:09,310 --> 00:24:11,550
I didn't do it, do whatever he said.
417
00:24:11,929 --> 00:24:14,360
So that, that's something
that we've been trying to do.
418
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,639
He's been, he's been
doing a lot more to me.
419
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:17,949
I'm being honest.
420
00:24:17,950 --> 00:24:18,489
I'm working on it.
421
00:24:18,490 --> 00:24:18,580
That's
422
00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:18,820
okay.
423
00:24:18,860 --> 00:24:19,779
It's a process.
424
00:24:19,780 --> 00:24:20,158
Concession
425
00:24:20,158 --> 00:24:21,809
is good for the soul.
426
00:24:21,810 --> 00:24:23,899
I'm admitting that.
427
00:24:23,899 --> 00:24:25,430
I am a work in progress.
428
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:26,730
We all are.
429
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:27,510
That's okay.
430
00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:30,290
So it means so much.
431
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:33,070
And I think that it's very important.
432
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:40,500
For, for women, for us women, when
we're feeling like our husbands aren't
433
00:24:40,590 --> 00:24:45,940
hearing us, um, you know, we're, like
I said, we're seeing something, you
434
00:24:45,940 --> 00:24:50,429
know, that's bothering us that, you
know, either was said or how it was said
435
00:24:50,429 --> 00:24:52,700
or what was done or how it was done.
436
00:24:52,929 --> 00:24:58,560
If they're not in agreeance, you know,
we're not agreeing with what's being said,
437
00:24:58,610 --> 00:25:02,129
but they acknowledge, yes, that did it.
438
00:25:02,514 --> 00:25:04,814
That's how it made us feel.
439
00:25:05,004 --> 00:25:09,115
I think that that is important
too, because to me that shows,
440
00:25:09,245 --> 00:25:14,475
okay, I don't want my wife to
feel like I'm being dismissive.
441
00:25:14,475 --> 00:25:18,805
I don't want my wife to feel like
her feelings in whatever's going
442
00:25:18,805 --> 00:25:23,644
on didn't matter in, in this, this
disagreement and, or whatever.
443
00:25:23,705 --> 00:25:24,925
I want her to know.
444
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,009
I am listening or I'm concerned.
445
00:25:28,019 --> 00:25:29,659
I'm, I might not agree.
446
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,590
I, I don't want her to feel
like her feelings don't matter.
447
00:25:34,590 --> 00:25:37,909
So that is so important, but
it needs to be both ways.
448
00:25:37,979 --> 00:25:40,309
It has to be both of us.
449
00:25:40,649 --> 00:25:41,810
And that's called respect.
450
00:25:42,270 --> 00:25:43,060
That's called respect.
451
00:25:43,580 --> 00:25:48,210
I, I remember I had a conversation
with a couple, um, and the wife said
452
00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:52,850
to the husband, um, she said, when,
when I come to you and I tell you
453
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,720
things that are bothering me or that
I'm upset about, I'm not asking you to
454
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,719
fix it because a lot of times the male
approach is, okay, tell me what it is.
455
00:26:03,049 --> 00:26:04,659
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, done.
456
00:26:05,049 --> 00:26:06,109
Don't worry about it anymore.
457
00:26:06,139 --> 00:26:07,149
It's all taken care
458
00:26:07,150 --> 00:26:09,014
of.
459
00:26:09,014 --> 00:26:12,170
Well, I really think that's a guy thing.
460
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:17,340
But that's just me, but what she said was,
she said, I just want somebody to listen.
461
00:26:17,730 --> 00:26:20,420
I'm not asking you to
come up with a solution.
462
00:26:20,619 --> 00:26:21,790
I'll find a solution.
463
00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:23,719
I just want an ear.
464
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:27,350
And clearly I have learned as a position,
I'm certainly not a psychiatrist,
465
00:26:27,619 --> 00:26:31,119
but I have learned as a position of
whether just a friend, a lot of times
466
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,040
you just want somebody to listen.
467
00:26:33,675 --> 00:26:37,165
And they don't have to say anything,
but just let you go through whatever
468
00:26:37,165 --> 00:26:38,595
you go through or say whatever you need.
469
00:26:38,835 --> 00:26:42,155
And that itself may very well
be therapeutic because that
470
00:26:42,155 --> 00:26:44,504
may show respect or caring.
471
00:26:44,675 --> 00:26:47,945
Okay, I care enough and I'll take
whatever amount of time you have.
472
00:26:47,945 --> 00:26:49,494
And you just, just talk to me.
473
00:26:49,735 --> 00:26:54,915
But we guys, I, you know, at least in
this particular case, The guy was the type
474
00:26:54,915 --> 00:26:58,475
of person who wanted to fix everything,
you know, I'll, I'll take care of you.
475
00:26:58,504 --> 00:26:59,935
She says, I don't need
you to take care of me.
476
00:26:59,935 --> 00:27:04,305
I just, I just want you to listen
when I talk to you, you know,
477
00:27:04,305 --> 00:27:05,374
you don't have to fix anything.
478
00:27:05,565 --> 00:27:08,514
I can fix it myself, but I want to share.
479
00:27:08,705 --> 00:27:12,215
What, what I'm going through, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
480
00:27:12,605 --> 00:27:15,814
Uh, so it, it's, it's a
process and, and it takes time.
481
00:27:16,175 --> 00:27:21,725
Um, but, but if at least what has worked
for me personally is it's a hundred
482
00:27:21,725 --> 00:27:24,275
percent me, a hundred percent me.
483
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,895
And if I, if I do what I'm supposed to
do, a hundred percent, um, and just be
484
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:31,835
there, um, you know, things get better.
485
00:27:35,205 --> 00:27:35,895
Okay.
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