Weaponizing the Bible: Manipulation, Misinterpretation, and the Importance of Context with Rev John B Nickens III

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Coming up on this episode of the
healthy, wealthy, and wise podcast,

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but it says provoking out your children
to rap, you know, they will pull out

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key verses and, um, similar to what
was, and I don't want to get too

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fast, but Juneteenth is Wednesday.

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Yes, yes.

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It wasn't.

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And then there's some people
who are ignorant of that.

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And

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welcome to the healthy, wealthy,
and wise podcast with Dr.

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William T.

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Choctaw, MD, JD.

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Our mission is to empower you
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Choctaw will provide insightful advice
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So let's get started.

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Here's Dr.

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William T.

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Choctaw, MD, JD, with an
interview already in progress.

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You use the term, um, that I
had not heard, um, um, and I

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want you to expand on that.

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Tell me about weaponization of the Bible.

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Um, for instance, and Dr.

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McCall used to preach like this,
for instance, people will take

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out key verses in the Bible.

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To the point that they want to get
across without giving proper context

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on how to do, for instance, I'm sure
no one does that in 2024 does this

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in 2024, but perhaps, um, husbands
and wives, Ephesians 5 and 20 wives,

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submit yourselves to your own husbands.

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Oh, yes.

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We'll pull that out, but you're
supposed to submit to me,

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but you have to keep reading.

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It says that's for the family and it says.

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At the end of all that, it says submitting
yourselves one to another, right?

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Yes.

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Which means that it's
not about what I want.

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It's, it's about, and it says,
Husbands, love your wives

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as Christ loved the church.

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And we know Christ was
willing to die for the church.

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So, wives, you know, you shouldn't,
men would throw that out, but then

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they're not following the pattern.

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Exactly.

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It's disappointing.

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Contextually for the
rest of the scripture.

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Are you loving your wife in such a way
that you would nobody's asking you to go

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jump In front of a truck, but if it came
to that Would you do it without thinking

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would you would you as christ did for
the church, you know, he gave him support

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Would you do that for your children?

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Nobody's asking you to do that.

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But if it came to that Would you
do it and would you do it and do

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they know that you would do it?

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Are you living in such a way
today again respect and trust you?

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You Yes, you know, um, but some
men will weaponize that and say,

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you're supposed to do what I say.

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And just like we talked about,
uh, earlier, oh, you honor

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my father and my mother.

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That's what it says, but it says
provoke not your children to rap, you

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know, they will pull out key verses.

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And, uh, similar to what was, and I
don't want to get too far into it,

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but Juneteenth is, is Wednesday.

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But the slave Yes.

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Yes, indeed.

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It wasn't, and then there's some people
who are ignorant of that, and even people

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of color today, oh, I don't believe in
the Bible, because they used to use it

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to, no, they didn't use the whole Bible.

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Right.

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They, they weaponized it.

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There you

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go.

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They justified their point and
didn't put it in proper context,

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and that's what a lot of people do.

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And they're still doing it.

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They're still doing it.

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And so to me, that's the weaponization.

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You're not really giving the whole truth.

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You're just using it to justify
your little point for manipulation.

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You're trying to control people.

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So that's, that's what I meant by that.

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Well, I, I think it's a very profound
concept and I think whether, uh, whether

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we're talking about, um, uh, back in
biblical times or whether we're talking

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about the, the periods of slavery
and I'm sure, uh, people like Harriet

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Tubman, uh, uh, sat in meetings where
folks were reading the Bible to her and

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saying, you know, or some context saying
slaves be obedient, whatever, whatever.

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And she says, no, I don't think so.

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Cause my God, that doesn't say that,
you know, and so my point is, I I think

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you, you hit on such an important point.

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One has to be able to understand,
um, when words are being

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weaponized, uh, to manipulate,
uh, and, uh, taken out of context.

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And your whole point is read
the whole context, get the full

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meaning of whatever document you're
talking about, whether it's the

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constitution or, or, or the Bible.

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Um, uh, and many times you will
get a broader interpretation

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or more specifically, a more
accurate interpretation.

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And I think you're also correct that,
uh, bad leaders or poor, um, uh,

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individuals who want to be leaders,
but who never will be, uh, will try to

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manipulate because that's all they have.

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So, so they're, they're going to
misdirect and they're going to lie

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and they're going to cheat and they're
going to steal and, um, and they're

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going to have you look at the shiny
object instead of what's real, you know.

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Um, uh, and I think it's important
to always look at what's real.

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Um, and, um, and I think, uh, uh, and
also I, I think your thoughts about

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men are right, right on the mark.

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Um, uh, it, it's so important.

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I, you know, I think it's clearly
a difference between men and women.

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Men really are for Mars and women
really are for Venus, right?

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And I think, and I think particularly if
you look at men of color, um, who have

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undergone a number of things throughout
the years and slavery and, you know, Why

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folks were separated from the family,
because, you know, they didn't want that

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powerful union, uh, to be able to create
powerful families in the future, but

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fortunately, much of that has changed.

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Um, uh, but I, I just think it's,
it's, it's, it's a good point to look

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at, uh, any other thoughts about that?

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None that come to mind, sir.

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Although at the conclusion of this,
when we're, when we're separated, I'm

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sure a bunch of things will pop into
my head, but right now that's, that's

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generally, that's about it for right now.

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But it's just important to remember
that at all times we're talking about

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this point, a lot of the things we've
been speaking up, but that thing about

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the weaponization of the Bible and not
only to be on guard for it, but to make

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sure that we aren't perpetrators of it.

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You know, at the same time Right.

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That we don't do it.

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Yeah.

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You know, we can fall into it
and, you know, so we have to make

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sure that, you know, we're, we're
interpreting it and, and then we're,

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uh, disseminating the information
correctly and in the proper context.

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And, um, it's a two-edged sword.

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It's not always gonna be to our liking.

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Yes,

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yes,

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yes.

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You gotta be ready for that, you know,
and you gotta be willing to accept that.

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And move along, you know, so I guess,
if anything, that would be that problem.

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Well, you know, one of the ways that
I try to check myself in terms of, um,

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weaponization of the Bible is judgment.

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You know, whenever I start looking
at, uh, person A or person B or person

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C and I start judging them, then I
start saying, wait a second, wait

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a second, let me take a step back.

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Um, and who am I?

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to judge one's lifestyle?

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Who am I to judge one's religion?

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Who am I to do that?

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Um, and I think I, I just think that
those are sometimes guideposts for

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us to take a look at and make sure
that we don't, uh, inadvertently,

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uh, fall into, um, it's, it's my way
or the highway type of mentality.

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Absolutely.

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I, you know, I often think.

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So along those lines, you're speaking
when I see an unhoused person who might

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be crossing the street or whatever,
make sure that I'm not judgmental

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because, you know, I don't know their
life or brought them to their point.

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That point, it could have been me.

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It could be me.

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Not only that, but I often think of the
analogy or the parable, I should say.

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That jesus mentioned in the bible with
the poor man and the rich man Yes, and

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the man lifted up his eyes and hailed
and the poor man ends up in the bosom of

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abraham And the rich man was like, you
know, can you dip your finger in the water

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and Right The poor man was in heaven and
the rich man was like, well, can you just

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tell my family, you know to live right?

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And and i'm paraphrasing
to do all these things.

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They don't end up down here So when
I see those people, I, I, the first

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thing that I've conditioned myself
to pop into my head is, you know

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what, I can't judge because they
very well may be in heaven before me

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or in heaven, I have to work on me.

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I have to work on my heart and my
mind and not judge them because

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God doesn't look at that, you know,

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exactly.

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I often see them and you know, I've
learned that now a lot of unannounced

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people, they have, you know, mental
challenges and they have other things

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and some are not the nicest people, but
don't know which is which, you know.

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So I check myself with that as well with
regard to what you said about judging.

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Like, well, I don't know.

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You know, who am I, you know,
because then I think, and I say,

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what if someone's over there looking
at me and they're judging me, you

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know, Oh, he's a, he's a black guy.

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You know, he might be on crack.

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He might've

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been

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good.

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He might be getting ready to
steal something, you know,

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exactly.

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So I make sure I stay, you know, stay
dialed in and don't, and don't do that

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and realize that everyone has values and
everyone, everyone has God made us all.

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Everyone.

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That's value to God.

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And so I can, you know, it's challenging
sometimes because we're humans and we

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think finite, like you said earlier,
but to your point, yeah, the judging,

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I always check myself with that.

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And when I see unhoused people,
that's where my head goes.

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Like, instead of like, Oh my gosh,
I'm like, Hey, wait a minute now.

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I don't know their story.

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You know, cause as you
know, there's people with a

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doctorate degrees on skid row.

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Yes, yes, yes, they are.

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Happy.

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You know, so, and so, yeah, I'm,
I'm wrapping up at that point.

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Yeah, I stay dialed in.

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No, what, no, what, what you're
saying makes perfect sense.

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I, my growth as a person,
uh, clearly occurred, um, um,

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when I was in medical school.

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I'm talking about judging now.

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You know, I'm basically, you know,
from Nashville, born and raised in

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Nashville, Tennessee, on and on and on.

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Um, and I had certain ideas and
certain, um, uh, opinions and

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judgments, if you will, about folks,
because this is what I was taught

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and, and I had limited experience.

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And, um, One of the points they said,
my medical school, they brought up

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that, they said, you need to know
everything about different people because

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you're going to come across all these
different people in, in your profession.

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And it is not your job to judge,
uh, if so and so comes in with

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this infection or whatever, you
know, what kind of person are they,

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whatever that, that's not your job.

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Your job is to take care of them.

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Um, um, I, and, and we used to say, I
used to say to some of my friends, if,

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if I was on trauma call for one night
and the imperial wizard of the Ku Klux

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Klan came in having a gunshot wound,
uh, and he ends up on my table, my job

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is to save his life and I will save his
life, you know, and I will not judge him.

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I will not judge him because I was taught
that and I believe that's the right thing.

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And I have continued to carry that.

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But it has, it has broadened my scope.

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I think about it, had I not done,
had I gone in a different direction,

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00:12:12,045 --> 00:12:15,465
my way of thinking, I'm sure,
would be completely different.

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00:12:15,795 --> 00:12:17,845
But I've seen that other way.

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And I said, to your
point, that's not right.

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Who am I?

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00:12:21,975 --> 00:12:26,335
to judge the guy just because he's
homeless and, and has raggedy clothes

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and body odor and blah, blah, blah.

233
00:12:28,365 --> 00:12:32,325
You know, he can have gallbladder,
uh, disease and perforation

234
00:12:32,325 --> 00:12:33,535
just like anybody else.

235
00:12:33,815 --> 00:12:35,964
My job is to go in and fix the problem.

236
00:12:36,555 --> 00:12:40,115
You know, and I, and I think
the more I focused on that,

237
00:12:40,125 --> 00:12:41,575
it, it made me a better person.

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00:12:41,635 --> 00:12:46,604
It clearly made me a better person, uh,
because I, I looked at just changing that

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00:12:46,614 --> 00:12:51,564
one aspect a little different, you know,
but for one paycheck, all of us could be

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00:12:51,564 --> 00:12:56,615
on skid row or on the street or whatever,
you know, it's not that far away.

241
00:12:57,130 --> 00:12:58,750
Uh, and you're correct.

242
00:12:59,069 --> 00:13:03,090
A lot of the folks who are there,
uh, do have mental illness, uh,

243
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:06,970
who started off doctors, lawyers,
teachers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

244
00:13:07,229 --> 00:13:09,490
But, but, but things didn't go well.

245
00:13:09,889 --> 00:13:13,769
It didn't go well and they didn't have the
help and weren't able to do it and they

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00:13:13,780 --> 00:13:16,879
end up, uh, being, being, being there.

247
00:13:17,854 --> 00:13:21,224
type thing, some, some women with
children, et cetera, et cetera.

248
00:13:21,675 --> 00:13:25,355
Um, so it's, it is that that's reality.

249
00:13:26,635 --> 00:13:28,484
Anything else you want to share with us?

250
00:13:28,485 --> 00:13:30,655
Again, I want to be
respectful of your time.

251
00:13:31,095 --> 00:13:31,634
Oh, no,

252
00:13:31,885 --> 00:13:32,115
that's okay.

253
00:13:32,465 --> 00:13:36,304
Like I said, I just have this event and
I will wrap it up with this one with two

254
00:13:36,455 --> 00:13:39,965
things and what you were saying, and I
don't want to step outside of my lane

255
00:13:39,965 --> 00:13:44,905
because but that goes in, in sync with,
I believe it's your Hippocratic oath.

256
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,310
I believe it starts with do no harm.

257
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,820
Yes, that's exactly right.

258
00:13:52,620 --> 00:13:57,100
You're just saying that number one, and
then number two about the unhoused and.

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00:13:57,955 --> 00:14:01,325
You all are probably familiar with
this story, but, um, there was a, uh,

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00:14:01,605 --> 00:14:04,915
uh, someone told me a story one time
they were, um, you remember when we

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00:14:04,915 --> 00:14:08,985
had an influx of these Christian plays,
they would show at the Wilshire e bill

262
00:14:08,985 --> 00:14:12,215
and it would be a musical and they
had a Christian theme or whatever.

263
00:14:12,215 --> 00:14:15,105
And so many people would go and see that.

264
00:14:15,135 --> 00:14:17,745
And someone told me 1 time,
they went to see this play.

265
00:14:17,745 --> 00:14:19,625
I can't remember the
name of it or whatever.

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00:14:20,085 --> 00:14:22,675
And there was this homeless guy
that was going down the line.

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00:14:23,115 --> 00:14:26,285
And asking for money, his clothes was
all raggedy and all that stuff like that.

268
00:14:26,285 --> 00:14:28,705
And he was annoying people and
getting annoyed while they were

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00:14:28,705 --> 00:14:30,045
waiting to get into the place.

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00:14:30,495 --> 00:14:34,424
And so he was just, you know, I
don't know if he had body odor or

271
00:14:34,424 --> 00:14:37,994
if he was, you know, if he was just
a mess, you know, and he was asking

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00:14:38,025 --> 00:14:40,605
for whatever donations or whatever.

273
00:14:40,955 --> 00:14:44,305
And he was just annoying
people and, and all of that.

274
00:14:44,305 --> 00:14:48,375
And someone told me they, they
experienced that while they were waiting

275
00:14:48,405 --> 00:14:50,844
in line to get, um, into the play.

276
00:14:51,305 --> 00:14:54,275
So anyway, they got into the play
and they were watching the play

277
00:14:54,425 --> 00:14:56,135
and all of that stuff like that.

278
00:14:56,135 --> 00:14:58,865
And the play had to do with Jesus
and all of that stuff like that.

279
00:14:59,285 --> 00:15:04,115
And when the time, the time came for Jesus
to come out, it was the homeless guy.

280
00:15:06,555 --> 00:15:07,374
Is that right?

281
00:15:07,464 --> 00:15:07,814
Interesting.

282
00:15:08,655 --> 00:15:12,115
He came out on stage, the same
guy that had been annoying.

283
00:15:12,305 --> 00:15:14,375
They were like, well, I
wish you'd leave me alone.

284
00:15:14,375 --> 00:15:17,374
And

285
00:15:17,375 --> 00:15:19,105
he was

286
00:15:19,105 --> 00:15:20,704
Jesus.

287
00:15:21,485 --> 00:15:21,835
that's right.

288
00:15:22,425 --> 00:15:22,945
Careful.

289
00:15:22,945 --> 00:15:24,480
Yeah.

290
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,705
You don't uh and there's a
scripture that speaks to that too.

291
00:15:28,965 --> 00:15:31,134
You know, you don't know you
might be entertained in an angel

292
00:15:31,134 --> 00:15:33,255
and you shouldn't be that way.

293
00:15:33,265 --> 00:15:36,434
Anyway, you should treat everybody
with respect but my point is,

294
00:15:36,504 --> 00:15:39,054
you know, um just be careful.

295
00:15:39,054 --> 00:15:41,675
You know, you just don't judge
people, you know, judge, judge.

296
00:15:41,675 --> 00:15:44,715
He not let you also be judged with
that same measures and there's only

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00:15:44,715 --> 00:15:46,995
one judge and that's and that's Jesus.

298
00:15:46,995 --> 00:15:47,835
He's the righteous judge.

299
00:15:47,895 --> 00:15:50,085
None of us can judge
because we're all jacked up.

300
00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:51,206
Oh yeah,

301
00:15:51,206 --> 00:15:54,526
I'm sorry not to give you

302
00:15:54,526 --> 00:15:59,506
another story, but that's
really all I can say.

303
00:15:59,506 --> 00:16:00,059
so

304
00:16:00,059 --> 00:16:00,612
much.

305
00:16:00,612 --> 00:16:07,252
As, as always, it is a pleasure,
uh, uh, beyond measure, beyond

306
00:16:07,252 --> 00:16:11,125
measure, uh, and we do still there.

307
00:16:11,125 --> 00:16:12,231
Did I

308
00:16:12,231 --> 00:16:13,891
put you to

309
00:16:13,891 --> 00:16:14,444
sleep?

310
00:16:15,015 --> 00:16:15,665
Oh, I'm here.

311
00:16:16,175 --> 00:16:16,705
I'm here.

312
00:16:16,705 --> 00:16:23,125
I was just bringing it all in and
I was thinking, uh, um, that you

313
00:16:23,145 --> 00:16:28,064
mentioned something about something
might come to you after we conclude.

314
00:16:28,905 --> 00:16:32,014
Uh, we do have a website and we do blogs.

315
00:16:32,024 --> 00:16:36,205
So feel free to jot down
whatever those thoughts are.

316
00:16:36,215 --> 00:16:40,835
You can send them to either one of us
and we can make it and post it as a blog.

317
00:16:41,455 --> 00:16:41,825
Okay.

318
00:16:43,475 --> 00:16:44,655
Afterthoughts, you know, of things.

319
00:16:44,865 --> 00:16:45,815
That's true, that's true.

320
00:16:45,845 --> 00:16:46,215
Like on the,

321
00:16:46,215 --> 00:16:48,229
uh, Postscripts.

322
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:49,090
There you go.

323
00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:49,410
Yes.

324
00:16:49,540 --> 00:16:49,870
Yes.

325
00:16:50,130 --> 00:16:50,480
Yes.

326
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,050
Indeed.

327
00:16:51,810 --> 00:16:54,080
Uh, cause indeed you, you are part of us.

328
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,650
And when I say us, I mean
the podcast specifically.

329
00:16:57,989 --> 00:16:58,839
Um,

330
00:16:59,050 --> 00:17:00,780
well, uh, part of me, trust me.

331
00:17:00,819 --> 00:17:03,230
I, I, I love you all dearly.

332
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:05,620
Not, uh, you know, the whole St.

333
00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:09,800
Stephen, the men's class, but you know,
you two in particular, um, I really do.

334
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:11,030
Uh, you have a special place.

335
00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:15,180
In my heart at all times, and that's why
I'm always, it's almost like Christmas

336
00:17:15,180 --> 00:17:16,950
and whatever month I come and I see Dr.

337
00:17:17,230 --> 00:17:20,790
Trofkoff, and you know, I come back
to the church, I'm like, oh my gosh,

338
00:17:20,790 --> 00:17:23,549
it feels like my gift is seeing you.

339
00:17:23,549 --> 00:17:25,750
So I love you all both, and thank you.

340
00:17:26,009 --> 00:17:27,060
Thank you so much.

341
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:32,670
Same here, same here, and thank you
again for your time, and have a wonderful

342
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,510
rest of your Father's Day weekend.

343
00:17:35,449 --> 00:17:35,960
Yes, sir.

344
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,220
And you all as well.

345
00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:39,850
You should be able to pick
any place to eat because on

346
00:17:39,879 --> 00:17:41,290
Father's Day, it's wide open.

347
00:17:41,290 --> 00:17:45,069
On Mother's Day, we can find a place on

348
00:17:45,070 --> 00:17:45,350
Mother's

349
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:45,389
Day.

350
00:17:45,389 --> 00:17:45,529
That's

351
00:17:45,669 --> 00:17:45,939
true.

352
00:17:46,810 --> 00:17:48,220
The crowds are not there.

353
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:49,220
No.

354
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:51,710
Alright.

355
00:17:52,399 --> 00:17:53,149
Take care now.

356
00:17:53,570 --> 00:17:54,449
Okay, bye bye.

357
00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:55,484
God bless you.

358
00:17:55,905 --> 00:17:56,895
God bless you too,

359
00:18:00,885 --> 00:18:03,555
Thank you for listening to this
episode of the Healthy, wealthy,

360
00:18:03,555 --> 00:18:05,655
and Wise Podcast with Dr.

361
00:18:05,655 --> 00:18:08,535
William t Choctaw, MDJD.

362
00:18:08,805 --> 00:18:12,375
Be sure to check out other great
episodes covering areas of health,

363
00:18:12,585 --> 00:18:17,415
wealth, and wisdom@thwwp.com.

364
00:18:17,655 --> 00:18:21,255
And while you're there, be sure to
check out the books, blogs, and other

365
00:18:21,255 --> 00:18:25,305
literature in your preferred format,
and don't forget to leave a review.

366
00:18:25,885 --> 00:18:32,065
Subscribe, share, and support
the podcast that's at THWWP.

367
00:18:32,155 --> 00:18:32,705
com.

368
00:18:33,085 --> 00:18:36,905
You've been listening to the Healthy,
Wealthy, and Wise podcast with Dr.

369
00:18:36,915 --> 00:18:37,485
William T.

370
00:18:37,515 --> 00:18:39,884
Choctaw, MD, JD.