We've Never Done It That Way Before: Breaking the Mold to Attract Younger Generations to Church, with Rev John B Nickens III

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Coming up on this episode of the
healthy, wealthy, and wise podcast.

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No, actually what you
said makes a lot of sense.

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You know, you say in essence,
you got to work as a team.

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You got to work with the members.

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Number two, you got to.

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Welcome to the healthy, wealthy,
and wise podcast with Dr.

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William T.

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Choctaw, MD, JD.

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Our mission is to empower you with
the knowledge and equip you with

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the tools you'll need to thrive
in all aspects of your life.

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Join us now, as we discuss everything
from nutrition and exercise

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to money management, personal
growth, and spiritual growth.

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Dr.

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Chok Thom will provide insightful
advice on how to improve your physical,

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financial, and spiritual health, as well
as your emotional and mental wellbeing.

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So whether you're looking to
get the latest in medical news,

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unlock financial opportunities, or
cultivate a more positive mindset.

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We've got you covered.

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Get ready to become the
best version of yourself.

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So, let's get started.

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Here's Dr.

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William T.

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Choctaw, MD, JD, with an
interview already in progress.

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I totally agree because I
didn't seek this situation out.

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I didn't even know, honestly, I
didn't know this church existed.

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I

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didn't know other people in St.

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Stephen did because Some people ended up
over there from they migrated from years

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past, I had no idea this place existed.

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And it kind of just during the
pandemic, it fell in my lap.

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And I went in as a side person, you
know, and then over the because they

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didn't know me, I don't know them.

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You know, but as we got familiar
with each other, these other things

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happen, but it's nothing I sought
out or they didn't seek me out.

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It's just, you know, like you said,
it's in what it was established.

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I didn't know about it.

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I wasn't expecting it and I wasn't
buying for it, but it's happening and

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it's happening right now at the pace.

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And so, you know, I eagerly embrace
whatever, whatever's to come,

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you know, You know, bring it,
bring it on, you know, I'm ready.

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And indeed, that's sort of the way life
is, you know, we, we have things that

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we want to do, and we don't want to do.

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And then there are things that happen,
irrespective of both those interests.

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And I think the more we're able
to adapt, I think the adaptability

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is the art of survival.

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And I think not only does that allow
us to survive, it helps us to thrive,

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a particular one where you can see
the benefit and the, and the joy.

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And, and, and the, the, the blessings
that are in those new things that

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we never would have done ourselves.

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Uh, you know, we, we wanted to go left
and we were sent right, but right was the

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best way for us to go as it turns out.

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Yes, sir.

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I agree wholeheartedly.

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Yes, sir.

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Well, let me ask you another thing,
um, uh, you know, you hear a lot about,

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uh, I'm talking about the church now,
you hear a lot about, in general, about

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the church and, and about young people
and young people are, uh, leaving the

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church or in, leaving the church in
droves and all that sort of stuff.

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What, what, what would you suggest if
you were the, the ultimate advisor, um,

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I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm making sure I stay out
of all politics here, but if you were,

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if you were, if you were the ultimate
advisor for any church, for any church,

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uh, and, and, and you want to, you want
to keep your church going and you want to

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make sure that the membership increases
instead of decreases, um, well, what,

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what, what are some of the elements in
your experience that you've learned?

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That are helpful in, uh,
bringing more people to Christ.

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So bringing more people, uh, to church.

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Um, you know, the, my honest answer
to that is, and that's, it's gonna be

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a bit abstract because that's okay.

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From church to church.

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Um, we have to determine what the, the,
the pulse be is for wherever you are.

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Okay.

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And then you have to, to target that.

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Uh, and bring it out from there.

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If you can stimulate that,
whatever the policy is, and if you

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want, let's say young people or
whatever, you find out what the

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policy is and try and utilize that.

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And again, this is abstract.

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It's different from church to church,
but utilize that in some fashion to

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bring in, um, the demograph that you
might be, you know, and that's approved

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to be, there's so many factors.

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Sometimes it's a geographical, you
Um, Um, there's a lot of different

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factors and then again, you have
to realize that sometimes maybe

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what you have in mind is not the
direction that you should be going.

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Maybe your plan is a God's plan, so
you have to figure out what that is,

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and then you might have to pivot from
what you were trying to do and embrace

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the future that you see happening in
God's plan, even though it's not the

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direction you would have normally gone.

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So, you have to be open minded, you
know, it might be a demographical,

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it might be a different demographic
of people for the future.

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You have to embrace it, you know, and
I, I think there's a seven words, I

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often say seven words that have often
killed some, some, some churches is we've

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never done it that way before, you know,

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that will, that will mess some
things up, you know, so went

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down there for trial and error.

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You have to experiment, but you
have to find out what the pulse is.

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branch out from there and then
be willing to accept the fact

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that maybe it's not how I see it.

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I have to be open minded and
outside of the box, create a new box

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and

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and see what god wants to take and
then embrace that and that's what

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I think proves to be difficult.

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Um um with a lot of churches because
they may not want to do that but

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you want to keep the church alive
and you want to keep it going.

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It might not look like you want
it to look but it's what you

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want your church to look like.

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Well, I've watched too much
so you can tap into that.

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Yes.

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I know I've been rambling all over
the place but that's No, no, no.

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No, actually, what you
said makes a lot of sense.

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You know, you say in essence,
you got to work as a team.

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You got to work with the members.

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Number two, you got to learn to be
willing to be open minded and learn

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instead of me saying, well, this is
the way Choctaw does it and everybody's

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going to do it the way Choctaw does it.

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But see, Choctaw is human
and Choctaw is not God.

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You know, and, and God is much bigger
and much broader than, than Choctaw is.

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And so we all, I, I agree with you.

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We all do have to be willing to grow.

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Um, I also agree that
every church is different.

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You know, there is no
one size that fits all.

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There's no cookie cutter that
you just sort of try to put every

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square peg into every round hole.

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It just doesn't fit that way.

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Uh, and I always, I always look
at it that, that when I talk with

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my God on, on, on a daily basis.

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Um, my, my God is just above
all, you know, that, that,

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that I can't put limits on him.

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You know, I can't, and I certainly
can't put my limits on him.

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I may have my opinion about what
I think, but I'm, I'm just a human

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just like you or anybody else.

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And I think, I think the more,
and quite honestly, that's really

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an important part of leadership.

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You know, leadership is not you
imposing your will on others.

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Leadership is you working with others to
find the best way to go for everybody.

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And that may or may not come from you.

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It may come from that person who never
speaks a word except but once a week.

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But when they speak, everybody listens
because they say something very profound.

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And, but, but it takes a
lot of maturity for that.

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But it takes leaving the ego at the door.

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You know, it tell, it takes,
as you said, uh, being focused

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on what's most important here.

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What, what, what, what is it
we're trying to achieve here?

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Or do, am I trying to look good or is
it for me, or is, is, is what, what's

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in the best interest of the group
or the people that I'm, I'm serving.

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Uh, and I, so I, I, I, I think your, your,
your thoughts were right on the mark.

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I think they make perfect sense.

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So

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thank you, sir.

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Thank you, sir.

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I know I tend to ramble, you
know, and, uh, but thank you.

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Or at least in my mind, I do, you
know, um, and so yeah, to your point

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about leadership, that's very true.

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And, and people have a
misconception about leadership.

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They think it's like, well, I'm in charge,
so I'll think of everything, you know,

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uh, two, two components of leadership.

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One, brother Herman McMillan told me
back in 1998 when he was getting ready to

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give me charge of the youth choir at St.

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Stephen's, and he said, you know, if
you're going to be a leader, you're

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going to be, he said, um, one of the
key things that a good leader does

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is make everyone around him better.

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That was number one.

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And then number two, what I've
experienced is that being a good

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leader doesn't mean that you think
of everything like you just said, you

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didn't have to have the wisdom to say,
well, I didn't think of it, but they

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thought of it and that is a great idea.

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So we're going to go with what they said,
even though it never would have crossed my

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mind, that's being a good leader because
you're not, it's not all about you.

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It's in fact, none of it is
about you, you know, leadership.

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And this is my humble opinion.

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You know, it's just the highest,
the highest position of service.

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You know, you're still serving the
ones that you've been given charge

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of, but you're still serving them.

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And, and, and in that, if you do it
correctly and you have interpersonal

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skills and whatnot, folks will not have a
problem working with you and allowing you.

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To be a meaningless figure or
leader or whatever you want to

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be, whatever you want to call it.

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Because they see your heart and your
passion for, not yourself, you know, but

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for the mission, the ultimate mission.

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And so to your point, yeah,
it's that person who sits in the

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congregation and never says anything.

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And when they speak, people
listen, listen to them.

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They have something and then implement
it and say, that sounds fantastic.

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I never would have thought of it.

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Let's roll with that.

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And in my opinion, that is.

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Um, a great leader that can,
that can do that, you know, uh,

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in my opinion, in my opinion.

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Right.

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I completely agree.

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And you said something that I always try
to remember, that leaders are servants.

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That is that the essence of all of this
is service and if God has blessed you

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with certain characteristics and skill
sets and whatever, so you're the one

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that can get up front and, and, and start
writing down the plan or with all the

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people's input, but then that's great.

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But at the end of the
day, it's about service.

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And I think, I think
leaders that forget that.

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End up not being satisfied in what they're
doing and not, not, it doesn't matter

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what it is, but not, not being satisfied
in the direction they're going because.

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If they only think about themselves,
then that, that's a limitation.

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Um, and, and many times
the goal is not achieved.

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It's not accomplished.

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Absolutely.

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And not only they end up not being
satisfied, but then people end

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up not being satisfied with them.

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That's true.

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That's true.

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That's true.

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That's exactly true.

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Uh, so let me ask you one, another
thing too, since this is, um, um,

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the men, what we call the men's
day weekend or a father's day

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weekend, let's just say father's
day weekend, that's more profound.

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Um, uh, if, if you had a national audience
of, uh, let's say I don't know, uh,

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90, 000, um, uh, people all over the
world, uh, and you wanted to deliver a

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message about Father's Day and Father's
Day weekend and fathers in general.

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Well, what, what would be your words
or what would be your thoughts, uh,

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about fathers and, and, and, um,
uh, what's all involved with that?

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Um,

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I would say, and because of such a
tremendous misconception of what a father

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is, um, particularly among people of
color or the minority, yes, uh, siring

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a child doesn't make you a father.

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Exactly.

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You know, cockroaches have babies
that, that doesn't, you know.

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That doesn't make you a father,
you know, and the fact that that's

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not your biological child doesn't
preclude you from being a father.

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Exactly.

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So I would say that, you know, um,
once you identify what being a father

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is, which is really a guide and you
use the, being Christians, you use the

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biblical principle that God is we are his
children, and that particular template.

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In your own relationship, whether
it be, I don't, I don't, you know, I

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don't use the word and then the people
shouldn't have step kids and, you know,

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it's either, you know, I say, it's not
a, you know, you're not a step father.

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It means you stepped up, you

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know, kids.

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Exactly.

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I agree.

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So if you're, if you're, if it's
your biological, um, learn that the,

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the, the fact that you were, uh, your
biological father, or if you're a step,

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Father, that you sit in that position
or you sit in that slot, doesn't

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give you deference automatically.

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It's, it's how you conduct yourself
and the, the relationship with those

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you've been given charge over, you know,
whether it's your biological or not.

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And I would say that you, you know, you
have to honor those principles because

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in many households, um, the Bible is
weaponized, you know, and they always

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say, honor thy father and thy mother.

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You need to do it.

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But then if you.

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Keep reading it says father's
provoking at your children's to wrap.

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So you have to be honorable in
order to honor, you know, and I

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think that misses a lot of us.

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And I think we my message would be to
fathers, whether it's biological, or

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if you want to say step blended family,
whatever, to make sure you're doing

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what is honorable, you know, if you want
to be honored and honored doesn't mean

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you're You know, um, people, when you say
jump, people say how high and whatnot.

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Not about that.

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It's the reverence, a healthy
respect, just like we have for God.

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It's a healthy respect, not fear like
scared, you know, but a healthy respect.

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And you should want to, to
breathe that in the relationships.

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So I would tell, um, any fathers or
any potential fathers who want to be a

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father or who grandfathers, whatever,
make sure you're what is honorable if

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you want the children to listen to you,
because they, they, if they respect

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you, then they will listen to you.

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That's true.

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I'm going to go in one ear and
out the other and they're going to

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dismiss everything you said because
they don't trust your judgment.

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Because you haven't shown
them that you're trustworthy.

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So I would say, focus on yourself.

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Make sure you're doing honorable
things, and everything else

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should fall into place.

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In my opinion, I

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completely agree with you.

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I think, but many times a lot of us misses
that respect to your point is the most

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powerful force in the world is respect.

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Um, and a lot of times people
think, well, respect, uh, power

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comes from strength that comes
from the, no, if you have respect.

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Folks will, will, will do whatever you
want them to do because it's so, you know,

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I, I don't know, I don't really understand
it, Reverend Nickens, but you know what?

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If you want me to do it, I'll, I'll do it.

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I, I'm not going to try to figure
it out because I, again, to your

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point, I trust you and blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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And I, I still, I, so I think.

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For potential leaders, those who wanna
be leaders and who may be listening

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to you and, and, and are trying
to walk in, in, in your footstep.

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Um, make sure, um, as, um, uh,
Robin Nickis has just said that you

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earn respect that, that you conduct
yourself, whoever you are in a position,

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uh, or in a way to earn respect.

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Um, because if you do not have
respect, you can have power.

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00:16:30,645 --> 00:16:34,175
Uh, and you can have force and you
can make people do certain things

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by scaring them or intimidating
them, but, but they're not with you.

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They're not with you.

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And ultimately, uh, that probably will
sort of fall apart, ultimately, uh,

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but I, I agree with you completely.

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I think, I think, uh, being
respectful and, and having that

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responsibility, indeed that honor.

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Um, uh, and have an individual
sort of follow you or listen to

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you or, or ask your opinion because
they respect you, I think is huge.

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And thank you again for your
time and have a wonderful rest

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of your Father's Day weekend.

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Yes, sir.

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And you all as well.

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You should be able to pick
any place to eat because on

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Father's Day, it's wide open.

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On Mother's Day, you can find a place on
Mother's Day, but not on Father's Day.

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That's true.

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The crowds are not there.

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No.

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All right.

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Take care now.

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Okay, bye bye.

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God bless you.

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God bless you too.

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00:17:37,570 --> 00:17:40,170
Thank you for listening to this
episode of the Healthy, Wealthy,

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00:17:40,170 --> 00:17:42,210
and Wise podcast with Dr.

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00:17:42,249 --> 00:17:42,889
William T.

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00:17:42,889 --> 00:17:44,970
Choctaw, MD, JD.

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00:17:45,459 --> 00:17:48,979
Be sure to check out other great
episodes covering areas of health,

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00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,359
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00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:53,990
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00:17:54,330 --> 00:17:57,940
And while you're there, be sure to
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00:17:57,940 --> 00:18:00,079
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And don't forget to leave
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That's at t wwp.com.

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00:18:09,730 --> 00:18:13,659
You've been listening to the Healthy,
wealthy and Wise Podcast with Dr.

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00:18:13,659 --> 00:18:15,610
William t Choctaw, MD.